The Sinda Elves are a powerful nation but they usually get a pasting at the beginning of the game. If they manage to ride out the first few turns and ally with the Dwarves and Woodmen in Mirkwood then they will usually defeat the DragonLord and look forward to expanding their position comfortably. They have excellent characters, good artefacts and lots of gold revenue producing population centres. Unfortunately they don't have an army to speak of at game start and without help will take a lot of punishment. This is a good position to play but very difficult - expect to suffer at the beginning! If you survive with most of your nation intact by turn 10, you could go on and place in the top three with some intelligent play and a little luck.
Strategy & tactics by Brian Mason
Strategy & tactics by Tom Walton
Comments by Sam Freeman
Comments by Dave Holt
Comments of Tom Walton's Strategy by Dave Holt
Sinda Elves Starting Information
Strategy & Tactics: The Sinda Elves
From Brian Mason
I'm sure that my redoubtable ally in game 131, Glen Mayfield, could probably do more justice to this article than myself, however, having gotten myself into this mess, I don't think I'll be able to stop until we cover all 25 player positions.
Basic Data
How do the Sinda Elves compare to other nations? At the start of the game they rank as follows (Allegiance Comparison Tables, Tom Walton, "The Mouth," #3):
among all
among Free Peoples
Total Tax Base
tied for 5th
tied for 3rd
Resource Base
24th
10th
Combat Strength
24th
9th
Character points
3rd
2nd
Artefacts
tied for 8th
3rd
The Sinda Elves have the worst production of the Free Peoples. Expected production (Population Centre Development, Brian Mason, "The Mouth," #2) which has not been adjusted for climate for the Sinda Elves would be as follows:
le
br
st
mi
fo
ti
mo
go
production
244
141
27
0
4124
1215
52
252
This is a very interesting and difficult position to play. There are numerous factors which need to be addressed and dealt with. Among them are the following:
There are generally two approaches the Dark Servants will take in dealing with hidden population centres. One method is to systematically reveal them all as soon as possible. This tends to make the respective Free Peoples more cautious, and is just the thing for a wily Dragon Lord player to do. Reveal the hidden population centres of the Sinda Elves in Lothlorien and then attack the Woodmen. The Reveal will tend to paralyse the Sinda and keep him/her from intervening in the Woodmen attack.
Another method is to reveal them on the turn an army arrives to attack.
While the hidden population centres will not hide armies in the hex, they will hide any fortifications you add. For this reason, I place high priority on upgrading (or creating) fortifications at all hidden population centres of the Sinda Elves. Imagine the surprise to a Dragon Lord player who simultaneously revealed and marched on Caras Galadon with 2500 heavy infantry (normally enough to easily capture or destroy it), only to find it has a fort or castle. He must then beat a hasty retreat.
a. Know how long it would take a well-fed all-cavalry army (this is a worst case scenario) to reach your most vulnerable population centres. Then, when within a dangerous range be prepared to deal with them. For example, consider the capital of the Sinda Elves at 2413. The army described above could reach it in one turn from the following hexes: 2212, 2214, 2310-2315, 2409-2415, 2509-2516, 2610-2614, and 2711-2713. Similar "contact ranges" can be found for two turns and for other population centres.
b. When having an army approach a defended enemy population centre with aggressive intentions plot your move such that you would stop him if he were to move to attack you. As your armies must usually pull "double duty" in both defending a vital population centre and take the battle to the enemy you should in an offensive action also attempt to insure the safety of the population centre you are defending.
The Character Situation
The Sinda start with three pressing character needs: first, their armies lack backup commanders, second, to both generate needed supplies and revenue population centres must be created requiring emissaries, and third, both for general duties and to take advantage of possible stealthy characters agents should be created. Having these needs and only four character slots makes the situation rather difficult.
Because of his high command rank, Thranduil needs to eventually become an army commander. However, in the early game he can perform three important tasks: one, execute command capital orders with a virtual certainty of success, two, improve (or create) fortifications at hidden population centres (at least those in the Mirkwood area), and three, name the first emissary.
I would suggest the Sinda create two emissaries and two 10/20 commander/agents. The emissaries will go about creating camps (possible locations discussed below) while the commander/agents will become pure agents if they have stealth or backup commanders if they do not.
Your mages can, because of their high mage rank and your possession of a good mage artefact, get into artefact hunting fairly early. I would recommend that one mage locate and acquire artefacts while the other works on other lore type spells. Reveal population centre is essential for Tol Buruth and Sarn Goriwing and Divine Nation Forces is very handy to keep track of Dragon Lord army sizes.
While Tharudan has a good mage rank, training him early and often as an agent, with the addition of the Sinda stealth artefacts, makes him a very good agent. Keep him moving and keep him active.
The Economic Situation
A moderate increase to 50 or 55% will get the Sinda in the black. It is imperative that Sinda be able to create the above characters and that they begin creating camps to increase production and revenue. It is also important for the Sinda to increase the size of the army in Lothlorien. As these cities are initially unfortified this is where the Sinda are most vulnerable early. Because of these needs it is probably inadvisable to recruit heavy at all locations until more definite plans are developed with the other Free Peoples in the area.
So, given all these things, where should the Sinda place their camps? As their need for timber to fortify their population centres is high the hexes of 2314, 2414 and 2513 would be good. However, given the need for metals as well as timber 2224 and 2326 (adjoining Edhellond) would be good as would most of the hills and rough of Southern and Northern Gondor (for example, 2518, 2519, 2618, and 2620).
The Military Situation
As described above, it is probably inadvisable for the Sinda to engage in aggressive recruiting in all possible locations until communication and plans are established with other Free Peoples in the area. Nevertheless, some things can be established early on:
The Lothlorien army: This is army must maintain a purely defensive role until such time as the two cities have adequate fortifications. It is very important to increase the size of this army early on to guard against an early first strike of the Dragon Lord.
The Northern Mirkwood army: This army is the only one which can immediately begin planning offensive actions. When Sarn Goriwing is revealed, this army can attack from Galadbrynd. Sarn Goriwing starts with a defensive value of 10,850. To get more than this would require about 2000 heavy infantry. Keep this in mind.
The Belegaer navy: At most, available transports can carry 1400 more infantry or 840 more cavalry. While the force that this navy can carry is rather small compared to the huge armies that Northern and Southern Gondor can muster, at the right time, this force can mean the difference between victory and defeat (as I know too well! Thanks, Glen!)
The Rhun navy: At most, available transports can carry 150 more infantry or 90 more cavalry. While this is the weakest of all Sinda forces, it has the potential to do the most damage. Every turn one order should be spent on order 830 to patrol the Sea of Rhun. To intercept the Long Rider navy is the goal. Losing the Sinda navy is inconsequential if the Long Rider loses his capability to ferry troops from Tol Buruth to the shore. Carefully planned co-ordination with the Northmen can allow the maximum coverage of area.
Strategy & Tactics: The Sinda Elves
From Tom Walton
In just about every game I've been in, the Sinda have gotten kicked in the teeth. Pop centres are burned, characters are killed, and extra gold is just a fond memory from better times. It seems that disaster and hardship are Sinda staples, a fact of life for this nation.
At first glance I thought this a bit strange for a position which boasts some of the best characters and artefacts in Middle-Earth.
So before I wrote up this article, I decided to go back and take a look at what Sinda players did to try to figure out why they got hit so badly - and why they never really recovered. Several weaknesses in the position were identified:
(1) The Sinda are spread out over four locations military, yet they start with only eight characters.
(2) Hidden Sinda pop centres are unfortified or under fortified (and 'hidden' is a joke in the 1650 game). Exposed Sinda pop centres are under fortified.
(3) The army really sucks at game start (to put it in technical terminology).
(4) The economy is more reflective of a Dark Servant position than a Free Peoples one: depressing tax or resource base combined with lots of character points to make for a high deficit (and a desperate need for more gold). In the Sinda case, selling to the market to increase the treasury isn't an option.
(5) Despite appearing to be safe from immediate enemy attack, the nation is actually easy to destroy. Pop centres are well out of reinforcement range of each other.
Overextended and Overexposed
My analysis of the Sinda position, and my recommendations for early game actions, will most likely fly in the face of conventional wisdom. In fact, I've never seen my strategy tried by any player. I believe the Sinda are badly overextended and unable to fully take advantage of their characters and resources because of this. In addition, the wide separation of their forces leaves them open to assault, especially in the Mirkwood region. An example:
In game 117, where I played the Dragon Lord, I managed to destroy the Sinda village in Mirkwood by turn 2, as well as both towns near Sarn Goriwing on turns 3 and 4. This didn't take any real skill on my part, only some fancy footwork to avoid being caught on the plains by the Dwarves and Woodmen. By turn 5, I was in position to attack and eliminate one of the cities in Lorien, and there wasn't a thing the Sinda could do about it. Only the failure of my mages to learn 'Reveal Pop Centre' at the critical moment saved the Sinda from complete disaster.
Had my mages been a bit more diligent in their research efforts, total Sinda losses at the end of turn 6 would've been 1 city, 2 towns, and 1 village - a total of 22,500 gold in tax base and 11 of their 17 resource points. End of Sinda nation. Even with my failure, they still lost 12,500 tax base and 10 resource points, a crippling blow considering it was all inflicted by turn 4.
Much of this was possible because the Sinda insisted on retaining all four of his armies at each separate location. Most players in fact do this, and I believe it's a major mistake.
The Military
To solve the problem of being overextended, I recommend the following moves:
anchor the ships at Edhellond and disband the army. Move any resident characters back to Lorien.
sail from Rhubar up to Esgaroth. Anchor the ships and march to Thranduil's palace to combine forces.
This has three primary effects. First, it combines command characters at the capitol and Thranduil's palace, meaning that good leaders aren't stuck with doing maintenance orders without the opportunity to increase their skills (it also makes the armies safer from assassinations and kidnappings). Second, it reduces the demand to make yet more command characters to act as back-ups for the primaries, freeing up the initial character slots for other classes. Third, it beefs up Thranduil's force significantly, meaning that less time is required to recruit before marching (no time at all, if you co-ordinate your moves right).
The downside is that you no longer have defences at Rhubar or Edhellond. But consider: neither of these pop centres is usually attacked within the first ten turns anyway, since more interesting and less well-defended targets are close by. In all likelihood, these two major towns will remain safe while you're away in Mirkwood.
Once your commanders are positioned, recruit like crazy at the major town in Lorien closest to the Dragon Lord. This is the most likely one to be attacked, so having your primary army there isn't a bad idea. In the north, have Thranduil march with all speed to Sarn Goriwing. Thranduil will destroy this site once your mages reveal it.
While Thranduil is doing his business, send out a large force to Dol Guldur to fight a losing battle with the Dragon Lord. The reason for this is to reduce the Dragon Lord army below the numbers required to mount a major offensive against one of your cities. Catching him at home means that he won't be able to march around you in some sneaky fashion to hit the other pop centre in Lorien. This move also has the benefit of reducing your deficit and forcing the Dragon Lord to deplete his treasury even more to replace the losses he takes. Since the Dragon Lord treasury is only good for about six turns, even holding him off for this length of time will cut his effective offensive potential by quite a bit.
If Thranduil met with no opposition at Sarn Goriwing, you should now have enough forces (along with either the Woodmen or Dwarves) to destroy any remaining troops at Dol Guldur and lay siege to it. If your allies are recalcitrant or Thranduil's army got beat up pretty badly, you may want to detour him to one of your nearby towns for a little recruiting (guarding the pop centre in the process). Much at this point depends upon how co-operative the other Free in the area are, or if they've dropped (a Woodmen first-turn drop is just about the worst disaster the Sinda can weather). If they're around and semi-competent, you'll end up crushing the Dragon Lord and driving him out of Mirkwood by turn 8 or 9 at the latest (it can be done by turn 6 if the Moria garrison turns out in it's entirety). If they aren't or if the Woodmen are out, you've a serious problem; a long war of attrition looms in your future.
Assuming you aren't operating under the less-desirable scenarios, driving the Dragon Lord out of Mirkwood means that you no longer need to keep significant military forces in the area. At this point, you can relocate your commanders to Edhellond and Rhubar to begin raising forces in these regions. If things went fairly well, you'll be back long before the Dark Servants start casting covetous glances towards these towns.
Characters
Under my plan, more commander/agents aren't necessary in the first four character slots. To keep the drain on the treasury down to a reasonable level, I suggest building two agents and two emissaries (no multi-class characters). Come turn six, add another emissary and two more agents.
Emissaries: use your emissaries to place camps in two easy-to-defend regions, namely Fangorn Forest and Mirkwood near Thranduil's palace. Since you'll be raising troops near these sites anyway, they won't be exposed to an early attack. Later, with the Dragon Lord gone, they'll be even safer from the Dark Servants. I recommend putting camps down in woods hexes to increase timber production right away. It's imperative that your cities be fortified, and you won't have the gold to buy it off the market while doing everything else. Later on, place more camps in the plains hexes in the Anduin to increase leather and mounts production (for cavalry). As for metals - well, trade with the Dwarves or someone else that has a surplus. The mountains are too damn dangerous, and others will be vying for the scant rough hexes.
Agents: nope, not for stealing gold, even with that nice stealth bonus they usually get. I recommend four agents because the Sinda seem to be perennial favourites for kidnaps and assassinations. Name the agents and use them as guards; their stealth will add to their skill rank while at the same time making them extremely hard to spot with 'Scout Character'. I've only seen this done in one game, believe it or not, yet the Sinda didn't lose a single starting character (even to Ji Indur + artefacts) during the entire time that
I played. It drove the Dark Servants nuts, not being able to punch through the guards. Much later in the game, if and when the Dark Servants are on the run, you can use these agents offensively. But don't be tempted to send them off to steal gold; as I discovered in game 97, leaving even one major character unguarded for just a single turn can end in your having to order up a body bag. Not a nice thing to contemplate, considering that your characters are essentially irreplaceable.
Economy
Resource production is virtually nil. Move the emissaries out right away and roll the dice on camp creation. This will give you the timber you need to build some fortifications, along with some surplus to sell when times are tough.
After you've put down a half-dozen or so camps, improve them to villages to boost the tax rate. You'll need the extra funds just to support your new characters. Villages are your best bet economically, giving you 2,500 gold in tax base plus 80% of the hex's resources.
Once this is put into action, you should be out of the early game and the Dragon Lord booted from Mirkwood. Move your emissaries to the plains hexes in the Anduin, near Lorien, and put down another half-dozen camps to begin building the foundation for creating heavy cav.
Notes
you can capture Dol Guldur, but don't bother doing the same with Sarn Goriwing, Goblin-Gate, or Gundabad. They're dragon-plagued. If you take them, emissaries from Mordor will eventually show up to influence them away (after the dragons have reduced the loyalty to a '1').
after the Dragon Lord is crushed, you might consider moving an army into/through Fangorn to try to pick up the Ents.
don't overextend yourself again when Mirkwood is secure. One army based at Rhubar, another at Edhellond, and a third at the capitol are just about it if you want to keep enough guards around to protect your commanders.
move non-essential characters out of the capitol! So many people base them here by reflex, yet it's the first place the Cloud Lord and friends will show up on their way to Eriador. Move them into a newly created camp (especially your mages) and let them do their thing there.
Over the Long Haul
In the mid-game, you'll be in the enviable position of having much of your kingdom out of the enemy's reach. Only two towns remain in real peril, and to effectively guard these you must co-ordinate closely with your allies in the east. I suggest recruiting HI at both Rhubar and Edhellond, moving into enemy territory to harass the Dark Servants every time you hit 1200 or so troops. Make a nuisance of yourself. The (former) Northmen towns on Rhun, as well as the (former) Gondor towns in the Ithilien, are great targets for raids. Threaten these, then run off and get destroyed by an enemy army. Repeat the process. Watch the Dark Servants turn scarlet with impotent rage because they have to divert forces to retake their conquests - again and again. At the capitol, begin raising heavy cavalry. Since you can call up 500 a turn, send the army off to the aid of the Gondors/Eothraim/Northmen every time your force reaches a strength of 2,000. This won't put a terrible strain on your economy (if you've been creating camps/villages), yet provides a force significant enough to turn the tide against Mordor. Many Sinda seem to disappear after the Dragon Lord has been dealt with, generally a self-destructive move since losing an eastern ally almost always results in a Dark Servant win. Repeat until you own Barad-dur.
From Sam Freeman
Comments on Sinda Elves Strategy:
Disbanding Sinda army in south is good idea, but ships should first be handed off to one of the Gondors, or used as a recruiting offer for Harad or Corsairs. Other possibility: (mentioned in article on NG winning strategy) move it to 3028 to fight the LR cav -- an almost sure loss, but will damage LR force significantly. Or you could challenge the LR commander -- either killing him (no refusal) or making him stay put one turn until NG or SG show up to wax him.
Comments on the Sinda S&T
By Dave Holt
In game 71 I'm playing the Sinda. My early game plan actually closely resembles what Tom advocates with a few exceptions. It worked ok because now I've got a team of 80+ emissaries who are converting 1 DS MT per turn into a Sinda MT. My economy is growing and I'm actually able to field armies again. Of course I lost the Sea of Rhun pop centre, my Mirkwood City, one of my Lothlorian cities, and all other Mirkwood pop centres. But I've still got my capital, and a character position that's hard to beat. The Dragon Lord capital still stubbornly hangs on (MT/tower now) after repeated assaults by FP armies. Our curses squad is really starting to be effective in eliminating those pesky DS armies...
My comments to Tom's Tactics:
From Dave Holt
The Military
To solve the problem of being overextended, I recommend the following moves:
anchor the ships at Edhellond and disband the army. Move any resident characters back to Lorien.
<<<<
Rather than do this, I sent my navy to help fight at Osgiliath. I think this is better than disbanding the army. It take 3 more turns to get the character back into the capital, but the help the army gives at Osgiliath is worth it. I especially like a turn 1 move where the navy ends up at 3028 (to meet the LR cav force should they move there), and then moves to Osgiliath on turn 2.
[Tom's note: I considered this, but I couldn't get the characters back to Lorien in time for the campaign against the Dragon Lord.]
sail from Rhubar up to Esgaroth. Anchor the ships and march to Thranduil's palace to combine forces.
<<<<
Agreed. I did exactly this. There's no way to defend the Sea of Rhun pop center.
The Characters:
Emissaries: use your emissaries to place camps in two easy-to-defend regions, namely Fangorn Forest and Mirkwood near Thranduil's palace. Since you'll be raising troops near these sites anyway, they won't be exposed to an early attack. Later, with the DragonLord gone, they'll be even safer from the Dark Servants.
<<<<
Agreed. I did this, except I put the camps in Lorian and Fangorn Forest. I also was unaware of Dragon woes in the mountains and put a few camps there. They went away rather quickly to dragons... But now my emissaries are a kick-ass team, able to take any DS MT up to a 70 loyalty.
Agents: nope, not for stealing gold, even with that nice stealth bonus they usually get. I recommend four agents because the Sinda seem to be perennial favourites for kidnaps and assassinations.
Name the agents and use them as guards; their stealth will add to their skill rank while at the same time making them extremely hard to spot with 'Scout Character'. I've only seen this done in one game, believe it or not, yet the Sinda didn't lose a single starting character (even to Ji Indur + artefacts) during the entire time that I played. It drove the Dark Servants nuts, not being able to punch through the guards.
<<<<
I didn't do so well here. I've got the agents now, but they weren't in place early enough to prevent loss of many characters. Mostly they guard characters and locations now, occasionally capturing the poor stray DS agent who is idiot enough to stray into one of my pop centres.
Much later in the game, if and when the Dark Servants are on the run, you can use these agents offensively. But don't be tempted to send them off to steal gold; as I discovered in game 97, leaving even one major character unguarded for just a single turn can end in your having to order up a body bag. Not a nice thing to contemplate, considering that your characters are essentially irreplaceable.
<<<<
Well, we don't have the DS on the run yet... (And it's past turn 30) However, we have stabilised things and the tide is turning in our favour.