The Woodmen are perhaps the weakest nation on Middle Earth, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't survive. This is an ideal position for a new player as long as he gets support from fellow team members. (The performance of this nation is unlikely to have a huge impact on the game result). The weak starting armies, poor characters and resource base, and no artefacts to begin with, means this nation will struggle to become a power in the game. The lack of fortifications on most of the PC's mean that you can expect to lose some of those to the Dragon Lord after a few turns. A woodmen player is up against it right from the start! With assistance however, the woodmen can survive and prosper once his main enemy the Dragon Lord has been defeated. In the end game the Woodmen still have a role to play because they can field quite capable agents due to the stealth bonus and recon bonus the nation begins with.
As far as I'm aware no one has ever won as the Woodmen. If such a player exists, I'd love to hear from you!!!
Strategy Guide by Brian Mason
Strategy Guide by Wes Fortin
Strategy Guide by Chris Ricci
Discussion by Brian Mason
Discussion by Tom Walton
Strategy Guide by Dan DeYoung
Response to Dan from Tom Walton
Woodmen Starting Information
Tactics and Strategy: The Woodmen
By Brian Mason
In a recent study of 31 completed me-pbm games, with 93 possible winning positions, the Woodmen have yet to place in any game. (Winners and Losers in Middle-earth, Tom Walton)
(Editor's Note: this article is currently awaiting publication in Whispers. It's actual status is unknown at this time). Coming up with a winning strategy for this nation is a challenge.
How do the Woodmen compare to other nations? At the start of the game they rank as follows (Allegiance Comparison Tables, Tom Walton).
Among all players
Among Free Peoples
Total Tax Base
tied for 18th
10th
Resource Base
tied for 7th
tied for 5th
Combat Strength
18th
7th
Character points
16th
5th
artefacts
tied for last
tied for last
So, in all possible areas, the Woodmen are weak, and are arguably the weakest nation. Their resource base is rather high because they start with so many camps, this contributes to their low tax base. Few of their population centres are in places that might produce metals.
Another big problem for the Woodmen is that they have a large deficit, and just to get the nation in the black requires increasing taxes to 70%. If this is done, only two of the Woodmen population centres have fortifications, so if loyalty drops much more, losing population centres is a very real danger.
Unfortunately, there are very few ways to cut costs. There are no navies to give away, and the very real threat of attack from both the Dragon Lord and the Witch-King makes retiring troops a dangerous technique to attempt.
In a team game the Woodmen can greatly benefit from cash grants from some of their wealthier allies. This can greatly strengthen the position. However, even in a team game this is uncertain at best, so the following set of strategic plans is intended to be suggested moves for the Woodmen with little or no support from allies.
Briefly, the strategy is as follows:
Raise taxes to 70% to get the Woodmen close to breaking even. They will need their gold reserve to create characters and camps.
Character strategy: Create a couple of emissaries which will create camps in mountain hexes (hexes 2360, 2407, 2408 in the North and/or 2215, 2116, 2217, 2118, 2219 in the South) to, hopefully, generate gold, and once the reach about 50 in emissary rank, move them to camps and begin improving population centres. High on the list of population centres to improve should be the two Woodmen hidden population centres.
One of the best special advantages of the Woodmen is their abilities to have characters with better challenge ranks and the added bonus of possibly having stealth. After the initial group of emissaries are created and the economy is put on a firm footing many agents should be created. This is potentially the area where the Woodmen can effect the endgame the most.
Army strategy:
The Woodmen armies are weak. Despite this, unless the Witch-King commits troops from the West to attack in the East, Mt. Gundabad is a winnable Woodmen target. Consider the following set of moves. One of the armies at the backup capital force marches to Maethelburg. These two weaker armies will be there to defend these two Major Towns from the Dragon Lord should he choose an early strike against the Woodmen. The other army at Maethelburg recruits 400 heavy infantry and moves to Buhr Fram. If the Witch-King has also recruited 400 heavy infantry and moved to Buhr Fram, the Witch-King will lose and the Woodmen will have about 64% of their troops left, more than adequate to move on and take an undefended (or barely defended) Mt. Gundabad. If the Witch-King has decided to stay put at Mt. Gundabad and recruit an additional 400 troops, then the Woodmen also recruit 300 heavy infantry and move onto Mt. Gundabad. Even with the fortifications at Mt. Gundabad the Woodmen will win having about 51% of their troops left. Once this task is accomplished, further advanced planning is not advisable as what should be done may depend a great deal on the moves of the Dragon Lord as well as the Dwarves and Sinda.
Tactics and Strategy: The Woodmen
By Wes Fortin
Let there be controversy!
Having just read Brian Mason's piece on the Woodmen, several other key points come to mind. First, let's examine why the Woodmen never win. They have the weakest pop centre base amongst the Free Peoples. Poor starting armies. Fair Commanders, and a lame economy. For the Woodmen to win, the Free must win. Therefore, they have to exceed the other Free Peoples in Pop Centres (a Gondor Strength), Characters (which Noldo gets this), Gold (Gondor or Noldo), and Armies (hah!). So, if you play the Woodmen nation, you shouldn't expect to win unless you play real dirty (not a wise choice). So, Brian and I agree on this point.
However, I strongly disagree with his strategy for the Woodmen. If the Woodmen raise taxes to 70%, that will drop loyalty of all pop centres from 1-30 points. Call an average of 15, and the end result is the destruction of most of the Woodmen's camps. In my opinion, the Woodmen stand a far better chance of economic survival by raising taxes to a max of 50% (loss of 1-10 loyalty. So a camp will drop to a 20% loyalty at worst), and concentrate on using production sells and ally grants to keep your economy afloat.
The Woodmen should make emissaries to first boost existing pop centres to villages (max production and some tax base) which will increase their ranks quickly to that magic number 40, to start CreCmp in the forest. The best way for the Woodmen to make money would be to sell Timber to allies for war machines, ships, fortifications, etc. If they won't buy from you (and they should if they make any of these items en mass), sell to the market! Timber prices are usually not bad.
For Mountain production - using emissaries to CreCmps here is a waste of time. First, Dragons will grow fat on your emissaries. Even if they survive to make a camp or two, the Dragons will constantly whittle away at loyalties until the camp disappears, or you risk another emissary to keep it around. I agree that mountain production should be done, but by PosCmp with 100 AR and a decent commander. Dragons leave armies alone! Post the camp, stay there and ship timber to the location. They commander they builds fortifications (and gets experience for it), and moves to the next location. With the fortification, the loyalty will never drop below a one, and the camp won't degrade! The result is a protected investment, and no character risk. You may even want an emissary with the army to increase the camp to a village while you're there. Increasing the hidden pop centres is useful, but predictable. If the baddies nail your two MTs and you're still around, their first thought will be that hidden town that everyone knows about. It's a good short term strategy, but it would be better to build a MT from scratch in, say, the South Mts or Fangorn if you want to stay close.
Characters:
Because of the Woodmen special ability for Scouting/Recon orders at double rank, and the good chance for stealth, new Woodmen characters should be created with some Agen rank. This doubles the cost of the character, but if you plan on staying in the game for a while, it's worth it. The Woodmen have lots of commanders, so the first builds should be Agents, Emissaries (or Agent/Emissaries - my personal favourite), and if you're not in a team game, a mage. You'll need the mage for artefact spells, intelligence, and a combat orientation wouldn't hurt.
Agent/Emissaries are especially useful because they can train in both classes in a single turn. Move the new A/E to the hidden town/camp and GrdLoc/InfYour. In a short time, especially with stealth, you could have several very good characters. Drop into an enemy pop centre with a ScoChar and if no one is home, InfOthr/Steal Gold. Great combination!
Armies:
The first turn, you need to move your armies to guarantee that the three threat points (Dol Guldor, Mt Gundabad, and Goblin Gate) can't get forces onto your MTs. Pretty easy to do. Build 800HI each turn and work closely with Sinda and Dwarves. If the Baddies overcommit their armies against you, the Sinda and Dwarves can take advantage of this mistake. You should be able to trap the enemy in the field. You may lose the battles, but you weaken the enemy for allied exploitation. I think Brian's moves against Gundabad are a bit extreme. Just send a good portion of your capitol force to Buhr Fram, have the remainder do a circle pattern to trap any force from Dol Guldor. Have a good chunk of the 2711 forces move to the village in the gap to intercept any forces from Dol Guldor and the remainder do a circle to again, trap forces from Goblin Gate (the above trapping pattern should also read "Goblin Gate". sorry). Recruit 400 HI, hire another 300HI if you can, and build a character.
Turn two will depend on the baddies actions. If they stay and home and build, co-ordinate an attack with your allies. As Brian said, your economy can't support lot's of troops. Keep an eye on the 3 threat points, and be wary of Cav units from Mordor! Take advantage of openings, and do lot's of selling! If you have a spare capitol order, raise taxes on Turn 2 to 50%, and downgrade relations with the Dragon Lord and Witch King.
After Turn 2, things get fuzzy for the Woodmen. Mirkwood is traditionally the most volatile theatre in the game. If the baddies overcommit too soon, they're dead! Lots depends on your allies. If the Sinda and Dwarves are shy about building troops, you're in trouble and they need a talking to.
Long term, the Woodmen are critical information gatherers and Scouts. One should be with every Free People agent company!
A Response to Wes from Brian Mason (the author)
For my initial strategy of the Woodmen, I was pleased that it generated such a response so quick. I really like most of the ideas which were presented. Of course, as I stated in the article: "the following set of strategic plans is intended to be suggested moves for the Woodmen with little or no support from allies."
This is not a condition under which the alternate strategy was developed, what with discussions of financial grants from various sources, and military aid from the Sinda and Dwarves. Perhaps I was jaded by game 62, but this is a "safe" way to approach the game, and if you do get help from your allies, so much the better.
Many of my moves are riskier, but I especially like the idea of developing camps in the mountains in the way suggested. Of course, emissaries are eaten by dragons (a hard lesson I've learned all to well in game 97), but the emissaries can be used to create camps in less vulnerable areas, both the forest and in the rough hexes south of Mirkwood.
I advocated creating single classed agents and emissaries. Of course, agent/emissaries are quite nice. However, each one costs an additional 5000 gold, and to the Woodmen early on, this is a great deal of gold and these characters are not immediately useful (although later they could be quite nice).
The army moves they suggested are much more conservative than mine. I am convinced that it is not only possible, but highly probable, that the Woodmen can take Mt. Gundabad as I suggested on turn three. This strengthens the Woodmen economy, weakens the Witch-King, and eliminates one of the three threat areas as described by the other plan.
A Response to Wes from Tom Walton
Wes and I went back and forth via email concerning Free Peoples camp creation in the Misty/Grey Mountains. Frankly, I think it's a bad idea all-around, regardless of which tactic you use (CreCamp or PosCamp). Dragons tend to constantly show up, destroying loyalty and making the pop centres easy pickings for enemy emissaries. This comes from some very hard experience from playing both the Duns and Dwarves. Fortifications might keep the camp from degrading, but they matter not a whit if someone shows up to do 'Influence Other'. Worse, if the Dark Servants take your camp, those same dragons will boost the loyalty every time they show up, and act as 'guards' against Free Peoples emissaries trying to steal them back.
But more specifically, I don't believe the Woodmen have the orders, materials, or money to waste early on posting camps in the mountains, then fortifying them with towers. Even assuming a 100 A army and a single 40-point commander (for assured tower production), this little army will cost 1,000 gold per turn in maintenance. Add this to the 1,000 timber you need to use (which could otherwise be sold), the 1,000 gold per tower, and the fact that you'll only be able to post one camp every three turns (move into mountains; post camp next turn; fortify and move out third turn), and you get a total camp creation cost of: 4,000 (PosCamp) + 3,000 (3 turns of army/character maintenance) + 1,000 (tower cost) + 3,000 - 6,000 (average timber sell price for 1,000 timber), for a total of 11,000- 14,000 gold. Very, very expensive for a single camp, one which will also cost an additional 500 gold in maintenance per turn for that tower.
Assuming that the camp produces enough materials to sell 2,500 gold worth of stuff on the market every turn, it'll take you anywhere from 5.5-7 turns to recoup your investment. This doesn't even count the worth of the lost orders, which I think is even more important at this early stage in the game.
Another point I'd like to make is that the Woodmen in combination with the Dwarves and Sinda can take Dol Guldur, Goblin-Gate, and Gundabad all by the end of turn 6, assuming that these three powers are acting as a unified team. Regardless of what the Dragon Lord does, he can't stop this. Without major intervention from Angmar or Mordor, or an early DS conversion of the Rhudaur (with their army foolishly committing in the Anduin rather than helping out the Witch-King), the Dragon Lord is doomed in Mirkwood when faced by a co-ordinated front. You can accomplish this even earlier if you have additional help from the other Free Peoples (turn 3 is the earliest), but I wouldn't recommend committing so many forces against a single, rather weak position. If the Dragon Lord and Gundabad are conquered by turn 6, the Woodmen are free from immediate threat for quite some time, unless the other Free Peoples in the east fumble the ball, or the Witch-King pretty much conquers most of Eriador. Perhaps this is the factor that's supposed to allow the Woodmen to gain an advantage? Early action followed by long turns of peace and building? I don't really think so, but it's a possibility.
Tactics and Strategy: The Woodmen
By Dan DeYoung
Contributing to the continuing discussion of opening moves for the seemingly hapless Woodman kingdom in MEPBM, I offer the following statements-
The Woodman can defeat the initial Dragon Lord armies if that Dark Servant commits to a 'berserk' attack in an effort to knock the Woodman out of the game by turn 3.and this can be accomplished without allied aid!
I fully agree that with Sinda aid, the Dragon armies can be stopped handily, and with Dwarven aid, the Dragon can be destroyed utterly, but such aid is often unavailable (in an individual game) or sent elsewhere by farsighted (Editor's Note: you being just a bit facetious here, Dan?) team-mates.
I offer the following strategic plan for the Woodman based on the following starting force locations which occurred in game #88. This plan assumes a worst case scenario for the Woodman- An all our attack by all Dragon Lord armies determined to destroy the two Woodman major towns at 2711 (on turn 2) and 2508 (on turn3) before inevitably failing to the superior Freep forces in the area.
Turn 1-
Woodman Order of Battle
2508-Woodman Army 1- 1200HI, 900LI
2711-Woodman Army2- 600HI, 600LI
2711-Woodman Army3- 600LI,600AR
Dragon Lord Order of Battle
2715-Dragon Army1- 600HC, 600HI, 300AR, 600MA
2715-Dragon Army2- 600LI, 600AR, 300MA
2409-Dragon Army3- 300LC, 300HI, 300LI
Dragon armies 2&3 recruit 400HI each before moving. Celedhring and his 2000 point weapon join Dragon Army1. (This is 'worst case' ).
Dragon Army 2 transfers all but 100MA to Dragon Army1. Duran leading Dragon Army1 puts army on Manoeuvres and moves directly to 2711. Dragon Army3 also moves directly to 2711 to join in what he assumes will be an easy pummelling of the comparatively weak Woodman forces there, since the powerful Woodmen Army1 cannot reach 2711 in 1 movement. Easy victory, thinks the Dragon Lord. I THINK NOT!
The following moves will allow the Witch King to take the Woodman town at 2405, but that army supported only from Mount Gundabad cannot stand against the entire Woodman nation when it finishes with the Dragon Lord turns its attention northward.Woodman Army1 recruits 400HI and moves 1 hex to the hidden town of 2609. Woodman Army 2 recruits 400HI and remains at 2711. Woodman
Army3 moves SE to 2612 to intercept the main Dragon Army from 2715 (1200men will not be 'overrun' by the large Dragon force; I had 900 archers intercept the same force in game #88). For completeness ' sake, the Woodman Army3's actual movement might be SW, H<H<H<H<H<NE to return them to 2711 while still allowing them to intercept the main Dragon force. The decent Woodman commander at the capital should DNSTNAT the Dragon Lord. Woodman character Odagus with his 10 command points should movjoin Woodman Army2 at 2711.
So ends Turn1 with Dragon Army1 and Woodman Army3 at 2612, tiny Dragon Army2 at 2715 and Dragon army3 at 2711 with Woodman Army2. Woodman Army1 is at 2609.
Turn 2
Woodman Order of Battle
2609-Woodman Army 1- 1600HI, 900LI
2711-Woodman Army2- 1000HI, 600LI
2612-Woodman Army3- 600LI,600AR
Dragon Lord Order of Battle
2612-Dragon Army1- 600HC, 1000HI, 600LI, 900AR, 800MA
2715-Dragon Army2- 100MA
2409-Dragon Army3- 300LC, 700HI, 300LI
The festivities begin with a waxing of Woodman Army3 by Dragon Army1 at 2612. Duran need not fear personal challenge so proceeds after the attack to 2711 suffering minor losses (14%). Woodman Army2 defeats DragonArmy3 at 2711, but it costs 50% losses (Urgubal has a 500pt sword). Woodman Army2 commander Osric is an even match for Urgubal and should not risk personal combat, so Odagus should recruit another 400HI into this army. Woodman Army1 recruits 300 HI and moves to 2711. Dragon Army2 begins recruiting a defensive army at Dol Guldur and is no longer a factor in the Anduin Battle. The Woodman commander at 2805 begins another army at the capitol (400HI) to stifle any over enthusiasm by the Witch King in the north, possibly moving one hex NW to intercept that force if it seems inclined toward a southward move.
At turn end, the massive Dragon Army1 is poised to assault 2711 facing Woodman Army1 and the remnant of Woodman Army2.
Turn 3
Woodman Order of Battle
2711 -Wood Army1- 1900HI, 900LI
2711- WoodArmy2- 900HI, 300LI
Dragon Order of Battle
2711- Dragon Army1- 516HC, 860HI, 516LI, 774AR, 688MA
The Turn3 battle finds the 'mighty' Dragon Army1 outnumbered and slightly out-gunned (even with 2500pts of combat artefacts). A long battle ends in the annihilation of Dragon Army1 though it costs nearly 60% casualties to the victorious Woodman. All Woodman commanders will have to refuse Challenge to survive the battle which freezes these forces in the hex for until turn 4 movement, but the WK army from the north, weakened slightly by the new army at the capitol cannot take the MT/tower at 2508, and may be dealt with by the surviving Woodman forces as they head north for the eventual capture of Mt. Gundabad.
The Dragon Threat is eliminated!
The willingness to throw troops away so that superior force can be gathered is the key to this battle plan, and is certainly worth the losses in the end. No Dragon Armies means a peaceful Anduin Vale for many turns to come and will allow the Woodman time to buy an emissary to start camps and begin enlarging his (hers in some cases) various hidden pop ctrs. The Woodman in game #88 benefited from a combined entrapment of the Dragon army and went on to be a major contributor of troops against enemies on all fronts!! (Thanks to the aid by her military advisors !!!)
(A Somewhat Bleak, For the Woodman) End Note:
I have seen a set-up where the Dragon armies were located at 2715, 2409, and 2809. This complicates the woodman position considerably since there are 2 armies on 2711 at the end of turn1if the woodman intercepts the main army from 2715 at 1612. I believe that having the Woodman Army1 intercept the Goblin Gate force at 2610 and having Woodman Army3 leave the 600LI with Wood Army2 will still give the Wood the victory at 2711 on turn3, but the numbers are much closer since the Dragon Lord can recruit and extra 300HI from 2809 and the Woodmen lose the 300HI recruited from 2609 by Army1 on turn 2. The 6000 point swing in Constitution and a battery of Dragon spellcasters with 'Blessings' or Offensive spells would be bad news.
Better hope from some help from your allies!!
A Reply to the Previous Article
By Tom Walton
Dan, you assume that the Dragon Lord will be predictable. Maybe so, most of my opponents tend to stick with the 'tried and true', but some are either innovative or just plain new and might do crazy things. This can upset your plan badly; the Anduin has a good deal of manoeuvring room for a Dragon Lord that likes to destroy things but doesn't want to clash with your armies head-on.
As for the alternate setup: this is from a very old game. In the new game, no armies start at Sarn Goriwing, and haven't for quite some time now (about a year and a half in real time). Please review the setup sheet for the Dragon Lord in my file on the Dark Servants; that's current up to 117, and was reconfirmed as being correct in game 138.
Strategy Guide by Chris Ricci
Military:
In the event that the Dwarves take out Goblin Gate right away and the Sinda and Dwarves work out a plan to take out 2715 without your immediate help. Brian's idea of taking out Mt. Gundabad is a very realistic plan. It has worked for me in the past. If your allies fail to deal with the Dragon Lord in a quick fashion then you will be forced to not only recruit heavily, but be unable to attack Gundabad and still hold your other pop centers. It is extremely important that Goblin Gate and 2715 both fall without your help. Otherwise Gundabad is a huge problem for the Woodmen. The WK can out recuit your pop center at 2305 by 100 HI a turn. This creates a problem if you wait too long. If you are unable to take Gundabad quickly and use your resources elsewhere you are forced not only to attempt to recruit enough forces to take out a MT / Fort, but you also have to overcome his ability to out recruit you. What you are forced to do is recruit at 2508 and then send troops to 2405 and then on to 2305. This takes time and is expensive.
If Gundabad doesn't go in the initial onslaught it is almost impossible for the Woodmen to take it out without help from Arthedain and that can only come when and if the WK has been dealt with in the west. By this time any good WK player makes sure he has a dragon in that army all the time and
then it is at best a stalemate.
Once Gundabad is secured I highly suggest dropping the fort. I also believe that the forts on Goblin Gate and 2715 should also be dropped. These pop centers are easily emmied away by the DS after the dragons drop the loyalty. At least make them super easy to take back by dropping the forts. Otherwise you have to come up with another 3000 + HI late in the game in a place that you have already conquered when those forces should be headed to Mordor instead.
Therefore my suggestion is to make it a priority to have your teammates take out Goblin Gate and 2715. Then you can concentrate your forces on 2305 and drive the DS from Mirkwood. Once Mirkwood is cleaned out then my suggestion is to send troops into the Rhun to help the Eothraim and Northmen. These armies don't have to be huge and can still make a huge impact. 1200 HI here and there heading to the Eoplex every 3 turns can save the Eo and take a lot of pressure off of him. If Rhun is lost then the war is over.
Characters / Economy:
Yes, the Woodmen economy is extremely weak. My suggestion is to name 3 emmies and 1 agent at the start of the game. Raise your taxes to 59% right away. Tom is absolutely right, any higher and you will lose all of your camps in a snap. Economic death sucks.
You already have a 20 emmie / 10 mage in Chiperlic who can be developed into a camp placing machine by turn 4. On turn six name 3 more agents and get an agent company going. My suggestion is to steal from enemy camps first and develop the characters. By turn 15-20 you will have 4 assassin capable agents. These agents will turn into strategic weapons that can be used to change the outcome of the game in a huge way.
Use the emissaries to create as many camps as possible. You need the production to help offset deficits. Support from your allies is also key especially from turn 1-12 as you can't support the military that you need to survive. Once the camp limit is reached then upgrade your new pop centers to towns. This will increase your tax base and keep your new settlements off the DS radar since you can't find towns via the palantir only major towns and cities.
If you lose a commander or two you probably will have to replace them. You need army commanders and eventually you need company commanders for agent and emmissary companies. Don't let your command ranks get too thin because it will greatly reduce your ability to achieve your goals.
In terms of camp placement I feel that mountain hexes are a complete waste of time. Not only do you run the risk of losing emies to dragons, you won't hold those pop centers anyway because the loyalties will be dropped by the dragons at will and constantly.
Yes the Woodmen is a tough position, but I think it is a workable. I don't agree with the people that say the Woodmen can't impact the way the game goes. A properly played Woodmen nation can cause a lot of DS headaches and help contribute to a FP victory.