From the Mouth of Sauron Date: 06-30-96 Issue: E-44 Note: all authors retain exclusive rights to their material. Reprinting is allowed for non-commercial game use only. The Mouth is edited by Brian Mason and Tom Walton. All correspondence can be sent to them at: Brian Mason - mason@chara.gsu.edu Tom Walton - kazandar@rio.com Back issues of "From the Mouth of Sauron" and the general info files are available at chara.gsu.edu via anonymous ftp. First Word ========== From Tom Walton Well, things are a'happening with Brian and myself, but most have little, if anything, to do with gaming. I've got two bits of news, one of which is on topic and one of which is purely a matter of self-indulgence (the perks of editor-dom). Self-indulgence first: having become thoroughly fed up with government, I gave notice at my place of work and will be out of the hell called bureaucracy' as of July 15. This, I think, is a good thing, even though I've as yet to secure a job elsewhere and might be subject to some interesting financial gymnastics as a result of my careful planning (grin). In some ways this may be good on your end, as it's possible that I could be unemployed for quite some time, meaning that I'll have oodles of extra hours to work on the Mouth. Back to a two-week schedule, perhaps, with Mouths of a more manageable size. Second, and this actually related to what we do: Brian and I are both in the two playtests that GSI is running for the FA 1000 scenario, soon to be released near a node near you. Now we've agreed not to go into specifics on the game, but I can tell you that it's not very much different at all in mechanics than the 1650/2950 scenarios. In fact, the changes are extremely minor. However, the setup of the game itself makes for enormous differences in how you play. Some of our erstwhile players have yet to catch on to just how major the changes are and insist on trying to push the ol' Good vs. Evil shtick, but most of us are adapting to the free-for-all atmosphere and finding it much to our liking. Fact is, I've pretty much lost interest in the old scenarios, and have been playing for the last year or so - maybe longer - just for the company of Brian and others. And, having seen yet another nation thoroughly ground to dust by dragon after dragon, I'd pretty much decided not to join another 1650/2950 game. Ever. But the FA 1000 game, now, is a whole new basket of enchiladas; *much* more interesting than either 1650 or 2950 were even when they were new and shiny. So it's quite likely that I'll remain in GSI's bag o' regulars in this latest twist on the ME theme (unless, of course, those damned wyrms start popping out of the bloody woodwork). In any event, I encourage you to give the new game a try once it comes out. And if you can, do it by email; the one-week game is a heck of a lot more enjoyable than the two-week version. If you're thoroughly stuck on the idea of two great allegiances duking it out, you might find that FA 1000 isn't your cup of tea. But if you like wheeling and dealing, trying to build yourself into a power in competition against - or cooperation with - 25 other players, it might be just the ticket you're looking for. Until next time, Tom Encounters ========== From Pete Maksym ---------------- I have a character who's been having the skeleton/lock/mirror encounter in a 2950 game as the Sinda Elves. The character is a commander/agent/mage with 77 challenge. He has attempted to DESTROY the mirror and was "almost killed", though he seems to have suffered no damage. OPENing the door was successful, but there was nothing there. STEALing the armor/weapons resulted in combat, and he escaped with 1 health. FLEE has been successful. I still have yet to try ATTACK, and am afraid to try to touch the mirror to call out a name/artifact/place, but it may work for a freep, unless someone has evidence to the contrary... From Paul Erik Lundstrom ------------------------ A riddle for the Mouth: They were of a type called by a high-elven name A breed apart but always the same For none could withstand their fiery awe And they were oft the last any saw. ANSWER: URULOKI (Fire Dragon) From Niels Lademark ------------------- In a previous post I asked for advise on a Gostir encounter. Not surprisingly none came (Gostir is a _rare_ encounter). The encounter took place in the Iron Hills (i.e. well south of 03xx), so Gostir does not _just_ roam the northen wastes, but occationally forages south. The climate in the hex was COLD. That may have something to do with the range of this dragon encounter. My character, a low skilled FP, acted MEEK......and escaped unharmed. The exact wording of the encounter and answer eludes me at the moment, but it can be provided, if someone really needs it. So prime those databases. Miscellaneous ============= To Keith Peterson ----------------- Keith, if you're out there a guy/gal named Charly wants to get in touch with you. His/her email address is: charly@arrakis.es Da Editors From Ken Lee ------------ In respond to Sheldon Campbell's article about special abilities. I found no evidence that the Elves (Sinda anyhow) gets anymore stealth to the extend (if any) that Sheldon suggested than any other nation. Here is a list of what nation I played (ones that have better chance of stealth), how often they get stealth and how many points they get. Dog Lord - 1 out of 9 (11%) characters gain bonus stealth. 10. Average of (Gee) 10. Ice King - 2 out of 10 (20%) characters gain bonus stealth. 10 , 15. Average of 12.5. Sinda Elves - 5 out of 23 (22%) characters gain bonus stealth. 10, 21, 21, 27, 32. Average of 22.2. Cloud Lord - 3 out of 21 (14.2%) characters gain bonus stealth. 10, 28, 33. Average of 23.6. The Sinda have one of the best result but certaintly not by that much to gain alot of average. He still have the problem of giving his agents the stealth instead (and most often) the other skills. If anyone have any other result for any stealth nation, please write to me and I will be happy to compile a list. With how often a nation get stealth, please include your original characters (they may get bonus stealth too) and any characters that was killed or retire. Ken Lee 100253.2220@compuserve.com Also from Ken.... I don't know if anyone knows this and I don't think I have seen this rule anywhere but did you know that with army movement - 850 MovArmy - Your army actually starts at Day 2 and finish its movements at Day 13. But with 860 ForcMar - Your army start at Day 1 and ends at Day 14. This may not make much different alot of the times but it is useful to know. It can keep unfriendly army out of your pop cnts and give you an extra chance to curse or assassinate the army commander before he takes your pop cnt. Editor's note: Ken also asked if an army would get a fortification bonus fighting over a pop center that was hidden. Anyone out there know the answer? From Carlos Afonso ------------------ Hello, I'm Carlos Afonso from Madrid, Spain I have several questions on dragons: - - When do dragons actually move to join the army? I know it is between 285 ReacEnc and 770 HrArmy but I would like more precision. - - Why do dragons eat their army commanders? Editor's note: they don't. This was a lie promulgated by an unsavory few who tried to bollix the early Mouth's data collection effort. - - Do they join against populations? And I hope to have an answer... to which army a dragon joins What we know is where they dont go: size, morale, and location dont matter. Common sense told us it was the best commander and it usually worked, but not always. Command 10 - emmisarie 50 commanders with dragons are known. We are sure dragons are not random, or at least not usually. My experience tells me lizards go to the best character, that is, taking in account all skills. Challenge has been thought to be but it is not. To illustrate this I will give you an example (and it is a good one!) 2 dragons recruited the same turn (no lucky throw here!) and both went to Cykur. Possible army army commanders: CYKUR: 53(63), 0, 22, 0: 53+22=75(85) chall:80 DURKARIAN: 50, 10, 17, 0 = 50+10+17=77 (77) chall:68 ROGROG: 74, 0, 0, 0 = 74 chall: 89 Rogrog won in challenge and command rank, Durkarian had the best "no artifact" rating and Cykur has the best rating including artifacts. This could only be an aproximatin to the truth but I'm sure all skill come into account altough adding them this way could be to simple. Please either confirm or refute (with examples...) my theory. Bye and good playing, Carlos Afonso afonso.ferrer@mad.servicom.es News From the Net ================= ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #1 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: user266642@aol.com (User266642) Subject: ME 1650 ONE RING FOUND! Date: 7 May 1996 15:07:17 -0400 I have been led to believe that I am about to find the one ring though the following riddle: One Ring to Rule Them All One Ring to Find Them One Ring to Bring Them All And in the Darkness Bind Them 1) Is this true 2) If so what is the answer 3) What are its powers Thanks in advance Eldon ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from David Darling (dpd@iisc.co.uk) ------------------------------------------------------------------- This is just a general riddle. The answer is ONE RING but it does not mean that you have found the one ring. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #2 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kruzone@inetnebr.com (Jon Hanson) Subject: ME 2950 Encounter Date: 8 May 1996 23:08:47 GMT I got the following encounter this turn, does anyone know the answer? ...To his surprise, the cave provided not only shelter from the weather but also an interesting dicovery. In the center of the cave was an oblong block of dark stone, engulfed in a faint transparent blue light that covered the entire surface. Upon the stone lay something that did not shine, but attracted his attention nonetheless. The cave seemed almost to be calling him. He couldn't tell what it was, and certainly the item was a powerful artifact, he thought, but how might one breach the possible protections? attack PHYSICALLY to drive off any quardians attack MAGICALLY to dispel any wards Creep forward silently and REMOVE the item from the stone block WAIT and see if the shimmering light goes out Declare your ALLEGIANCE Say______ Flee ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from watcher@mwci.net (Donald Weis) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ya say your Evil and the item you think is evil also? I'd go for the Declare your ALLEGIANCE and see what happens. At least if I were Dming something like that, this would be the aproach I would have put on it. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #3 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kunkel@news.cc.umanitoba.ca (Jeremy Paul Kunkel) Subject: MEPBM Mages Date: 9 May 1996 02:52:59 GMT Hi. Here's a question i haven't seen addressed or discussed here (or anywhere for that matter). Does anyone have ballpark estimates for the amount of damage a mage incurs for casting two spells in a turn? I understand it's a function of the difficulty of the spells involved, and that the spells can't come from the same list, but what kinda hurt are we talking about: 10 points, 20, 50? It's probably a range, but i'd like a better grasp of the consequences. What are players experiences? Anyone ever lose a mage because of this? Tom's note: the ballpark figure seems to be around 20 points or so, on average. And yes, I once lost a mage casting two hard spells in the same turn because I had stupidly forgotten that he'd almost been eaten by a dragon (health 1) the turn before. ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from Patrick F. McGehearty (patrick@convex.COM) ------------------------------------------------------------------- When I cast an easy and hard spell together a couple of games ago, I took 20 points of damage. (Conjure Mounts and Locate Artifact True) I did it several times, and if I remember right, the damage was the same every time. With 14 points of healing/turn, that's easy to ignore for a while. However, casting two hard spells together can be significantly more painful. I have not had a character do it, but my impression from talking to others is that it can be as high as 50-60 points of damage. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #4 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcinke@ux7.cso.uiuc.edu (Martin Milan Cinke) Subject: MEPBM riddle Date: 12 May 1996 14:01:58 GMT I have this riddle: evil marker loyal to elven family in high reaches they sing I looked up the answer, and I've seen two different spellings. Is it Thorondor or Thorondir? Which one is correct? ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from bum2000@aol.com (Bum2000) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Answer: Thorondir Dave Post #5 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: v011l6fc@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (DAVE ROSSELL) Subject: MEPBM 1650 Lonely Mt. Date: 12 May 1996 14:09:01 GMT Anyone have recent information on the Lonely Mt. encounter in ME 1650? The Mouth of Sauron database just lists combat as a result of exploring the cave or climbing the mountain. Anyone ever swim in the river? I remember having heard from somewhere that SWIM killed the character. Has anyone out there successfully beaten the trolls? If so, what was the challenge rank on the character? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #6 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Da Chieftain (mllx4arm@stud.man.ac.uk) Subject: Mepbm Emissaries Date: 15 May 1996 09:39:54 GMT One last thing..... v) Emissary ability to influence other population centers. I had an emissary at 45 who converted a tower camp with 'fair' loyalty on his first attempt. Yet my 50 emissary has been unable to affect a village with simular loyalty for the past two turns. Can anyone give me an indication as to how this particular order works? How do fortifications affect the success of the order? Is it possible to take a capital by influencing its loyalty? Does it make any difference if the nation has dropped out?? ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from Patrick F. McGehearty (patrick@convex.COM) ------------------------------------------------------------------- There are some variations in success rates. An E45 who took a 'fair' loyalty camp/tower is unusual in my experience. Was it owned by a 'friendly' power? It is not that unusual for an E50 to fail an InfOthr. The rules say nothing about popcenter size or fortifications affecting InfOthr. His relations to you do have an effect. If he is your friend, it is very easy to InfOthr. If he hates you, it is much harder. The description in the rule book covers it pretty well. Yes, you can take a capitol by InfOthr. If the nation has dropped, it's tax rate often goes way up, dropping loyalties. If that happened, the dropped nation's popcenters become easy pickings. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #7 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cary Stephan (cary@ix.netcom.com) Subject: MEPBM: Learning lost lists from artifacts Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 07:50:21 -0600 I have an artifact (Elenruth #135) that allows me access to Spirit Mastery; my question is: once I have a character learn the first spell (Weakness) from the list, does he still have to possess the artifact to learn more off the list or does he now have full access to the list without the artifact? ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from Saruman the White (Cliff_Yahnke@qmgate.anl.gov) ------------------------------------------------------------------- You still need to hold the artifact at the time you write the RsrchSp order (#705). Cliff ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from v123h3m2@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Mark Jaede) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on to that sword, Helkama. You can only learn a lost list spell if you have an artifact that gives you access (or if your nation has access to the spell as a special ability). Knowing one spell on a list does not by itself give you access to the rest. Now go out and curse some orcs! Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #8 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff (attorney@mr.net) Subject: MEPBM: Phredd's stuff? Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 23:26:47 -0500 Anybody know what happened to the absolutely kickbut MEPBM homepage (and info stored there)? I'd like to inherit downloaded copies if the page is now dead.... ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from bum2000@aol.com (Bum2000) ------------------------------------------------------------------- This is another address that you can check out. www.eng2.uconn.edu/~jason/mepbm.html Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from Todd Jenner (jenner@sol13.cs.wisc.edu) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Try this page for 1650: http://www.eng2.uconn.edu/~jason/mepbm.html Or this one for 2950: http://www.io.com/~lucinda/mepbm/ Game Systems also has their home page up and running (with some excellent past Whispers articles) at: http://www.gamesystems.com/ [Not all of which is done with the permission of the authors. - Brian] ******************************************************************* EDITORIAL INCURSION Incidentally, all of the stuff which appeared on Phredd's page as well as past issues of "The Mouth" are available in ascii at the "From the Mouth of Sauron" ftp site. Brian Tom's note: Brian, people want eye-candy nowadays! Dontcha know, the web is, like, cool! ******************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #9 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mornhm@firefly.prairienet.org (Kevin J. Brown) Subject: Dragon encounters in 2950 MEPBM Date: 17 May 1996 16:48:49 GMT Like a lot of others I used Phredd's web page to get encounter info. Does anyone know where this info is available now? Specifically I need to know FP's response to CULGOR. I think I remember the best choice to have the character survive was meek. Does anyone have any better info. Thanks ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #10 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Laurence G. Tilley" (laurence@lgtilley.demon.co.uk) Subject: MEPBM 1650 encounter Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 23:54:19 +0100 Can anyone help with this? Shabla is at camp when a sudden chill passes through her and a shadow momentarily obscures the stars overhead. Alert and ready for action, she scanned hte surrounding terrain, but could see nothing. Then from out of hte night she heard a hollow voice. "Little do I like finding others so near to where my errands take me! Speak, lest I silence you forever. ATTACK the speaker Declare your ALLEGIANCE INTERROGATE the speaker about the errand APOLOGIZE for the intrusion WAIT and say nothing Say___________(only one word) FLEE Have you encountered this before or do you kow anything about it? ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from Saruman the White (Cliff_Yahnke@qmgate.anl.gov) ------------------------------------------------------------------- I have used (successfully) FLEE to escape with both a FP emissary and an DS Mage. If you have a high challenge character (120+), you might consider the ATTACK option as I believe it is a vampire. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #11 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: steve@narboro.demon.co.uk Subject: MEPBM 2950 riddle Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 23:18:54 GMT Anybody able to help with a new riddle? "A box without hinges,key or lid, Yet golden treasure inside is hid." I've never come across this one, any ideas. ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from ggainey@io.com (Grant R Gainey) ------------------------------------------------------------------- This is an _OLD_ chestnut - Gollum and Frodo think so, at any rate, when this one comes up in The Riddle Game, in the dark. Perhaps you've led a SHELLtered life, to have not heard this old YOLK before? ******************************************************************* EDITORIAL INCURSION For the sake of brevity I will not include all the MANY responses that gave this person the correct response. Brian ******************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #12 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: drawes@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Mark Seward") Subject: Middle Earth - PBM, c1950 Riddle Organization: Compulink Information eXchange Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:10:41 GMT Can anyone help please? The greatest of the first Though not the largest in war Bound to earth but travelled afar Fought by dwaves he killed the King Finally laid low by one sword's black sting. Not sure of answer here. Some Beriland elfy perchance? ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from Turgon (cbatista@caravela.di.fc.ul.pt) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Glaurung? He was the greatest of the first Dragons. He had no wings so he couldn't fly( bound to earth), but traveled from Angband to Norgothrond. He killed Orodreth I think(king of Notgothrond). And was killed by Turin's Sword(witch was black...) ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from cluster_user@yale.edu (Cluster User) ------------------------------------------------------------------- I doubt it. This sounds to me a LOT like Glaurung (the dragon) from the First Age. Glaurung was the first dragon and probably accomplished more than any other in the First Age. Ancalagon was bigger and probably more powerful, but died in his first battle. Glaurung fought with the dwarves (I think from Nogrod, although it could have been Belegost) and I'm pretty sure he killed their king. For a while, the dwarves were the only race that had any luck in fighting Glaurung (and even then, they didn't have much). Glaurung died at the hands of Turin Turambar, who was also known as Mormegil, the Black Sword. He wielded Gurthang, the Iron of Death, which I believe was also black. Try "Glaurung" Pete Maksym ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from dade-sc@ix.netcom.com(Leo DiBenigno ) ------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know for sure, but I just finished re-reading tLotR again and it sounds like the Lord of the Nazgul, but I'm not sure if he had a proper name. If I remember, he killed Theoden (the King) before he himself was killed by either Merry or Pippin, or was it the maiden (forgot her name) who ended up marrying Feramier (sp?). ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from darren@unity.ncsu.edu (Darren L Frechette) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, but Hobbits aren't Men either. ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from kgp8d@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Keith G. Parker) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Plus the fact that Merry carried his blade forged in Westernesse, which was supposedly "wound about" with spells specifically aimed at killing bad guys. KP ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #13 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Junior (mllx4arm@stud.man.ac.uk) Subject: MEPBM No Daddy! Where are you Daddy! Daddy! Please help me Daddy! Date: 28 May 1996 11:00:38 GMT I can't find my Daddy can anyone please help me by answering the following questions for me: When a nation description states that new commanders may have skill ranks of 40 can I create one with a 30 commander and still recieve the higher skill rating? Is a new character in such a nation always guaranteed to have this higher skill rating if created by a 40+ commander? Can NPC's and warmachines accompany a Navy? Do NPC bonuses have any affect in naval combat? Is there a greater risk of loosing characters accompanying a navy than an army? Does the type of water hex you are in have any affect on this? I read in a recent article that during Army combat only a percentage of defensive spell strength is effective. Is there such a limitation on Naval combat? Thanks for your help ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from olivare@ibm.net ------------------------------------------------------------------- No. The skill level of the new character can't be higher than the one who creates it. Only if you use the 725 order can generate a higher skill character, but as the order description states it can't be used with the nation bonuses. Yes, it is Yes, both. If you loose an army battle youe characters may live, but loosing a naval combat means loosing all the characters in the navy. Only if naval combat takes place in a shore hex can your looser characters live. It doesn't matter if is coastal o deep water hexes, in both cases all characters die. I suppose yes. The only 100% effectiveness of a defensive spell is reached when loosing a combat. No problem :-) Raul ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from darren@unity.ncsu.edu (Darren L Frechette) ------------------------------------------------------------------- : When a nation description states that new : commanders may have skill ranks of 40 can I create one with a 30 : commander and still recieve the higher skill rating? No. : Is a new character in such a nation always : guaranteed to have this higher skill rating if created by a 40+ : commander? Yes, but only if you use NamComm. I can't help with the other questions. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #14 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: imas@enano.etsit.upm.es (Nacho Mas) Subject: Mepbm sea movement question Date: 25 May 1996 11:49:57 GMT Hi, wise old players of MEPBM. I have a question from a newbie for you: Could you please tell me how I have to use Gaergil (Noldo4s 'safe in deep seas' artifact) to move my army around the ocean without problems? ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from (Thomas Kampmann) ------------------------------------------------------------------- 805 Use Movement artifact followed by a 830 MovNavy ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from Saruman the White (Cliff_Yahnke@qmgate.anl.gov) ------------------------------------------------------------------- You have to issue two orders... The first is #805 (plus the artifact ID number), and the second is 830 (with your directions). The charcter writing the 830 order must be in possession of the movement artifact... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #15 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: darren@unity.ncsu.edu (Darren L Frechette) Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm Subject: MEPBM 2950 Balrog of Moria Date: 29 May 1996 05:03:09 GMT Organization: North Carolina State University Lines: 14 Message-ID: (4oglqd$6fc@taco.cc.ncsu.edu) NNTP-Posting-Host: cc03du.unity.ncsu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] Has anyone encountered the Balrog of Moria in the 2950 scenario? I have met him twice at 2212 as a dark servant and was killed both times. Once I went in demanding obedience. The next time, I gave the ReacEnc order without having found the encounter first; I entered his cave and tried to flatter him, but he wasn't there. When I left, he pounced on me from above the cave opening. I stopped trying after these two characters died. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #16 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jean Privost" (jeanp@odyssee.net) Subject: MEPBM 2950 Riddles. Date: 1 Jun 1996 10:26:03 GMT Hi I am a new player in the 2950 version, and would like to find answers to the following riddles. 1) Large from the first they were bred that way to move and think a bit slower than most their power and strenght held most at bay and they were the brunt of the dark lord's host I tried orcs and trolls but got nowere. 2) A poem it is of ghostly haunts of a hero seeking solace and finding only taunts written they say by one of those - a bearer a dream mis-spelled and holding only terror. 3) Tenth by the first and tenth by the second third by the tird yet always thirthy by all that reckon. ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from kgp8d@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Keith G. Parker) ------------------------------------------------------------------- ... Or maybe Mumakil or Oliphaunts? KP ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #17 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cbzach@aol.com (Cbzach) Subject: MEPBM 2950 Encounter Date: 4 Jun 1996 15:59:59 -0400 Encounter at 2915 Orthar began a short hunting trip to gather additional food for the journey. Besides, hunting always had a way of providing a feeling of great joy.As he traveled, he found few animals worth the hunt and had to travel farther out than he intended. Suddenly, night fell and he turned to retrace his stepstoward the camp. At least there was a full moon to guide his way back . It was strange, though, that there had been such a scarcity of game. Uneasily, he became aware the hunt had changed, and he had become the hunted. Quickly, he set up an ambush and waited. Within moments, a very large Wolf stalked into the area. In the light of the moon, the Wolf seemed to have glowing eyes and a knowing smile. Slowly the Wolf's head turns and looks directly at him. ATTACK the wolf state your ALLEGIANCE STAND your ground offer the wolf FOOD attempt to stay HIDDEN say_______(only one word) FLEE Ohtar is 50 commander and a 10 agent any suggestion. ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from "Laurence G. Tilley" (laurence@lgtilley.demon.co.uk) ------------------------------------------------------------------- He's a werewolf. Most options will result in you being left on 1 health point, assuming you start with 100. Flee might be your best option if the character is important (depends as Sinda what turn you're on). Otherwise, if you're feeling lucky, try ATTACK (esp if you have a combat artefact) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #18 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeffery A. Dobberpuhl" (attorney@mr.net) Subject: MEPBM: HELP! I Cant do Email... Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 22:37:56 -0500 I am trying with NO success to recieve pdf files from GSI. They don't know what the problem is. I keep getting the error "file does not begin with %pdf-". Has anyone else had this problem and have they solved it? ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from Kevin Barry (kbarry@concentric.net) ------------------------------------------------------------------- I had exactly the same problem. You didn't say what kind of email pgm/browser you are using, but, my problem was with Netscape. All I had to do was go into options/helpers and define a new helper as: application/applefile/pdf with the action of acroread and the extension of pdf HTH. If you have any questions, let me know. ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from "Jeffery A. Dobberpuhl" (attorney@mr.net) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is the solution to the email problem. I'd like to thank every one who wrote in to help. 1) download a 79k program called Binhex.exe. 2) open Netscape Mail. 3) click on the attachment and save it as untitled.pdf 4) Open Binhex.exe and use it on untitled.pdf. 5) It should not be saved as the real name of the file .pdf. 6) Open the file with Acroread. 7) Read how you got totally destroyed by your opponents and ignored by your teammates. 8) Weep openly. Thanx again for the help!!! Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from "P.J.Horan" (horan@CC.UManitoba.CA) ------------------------------------------------------------------- That is about as easy as it possibly gets. Just make sure that when you ftp you ftp in 'bin' not 'ascii'. If you have a mac you don't even have to ensure that the file has '.pdf' at the end... you can call it whatever you want, eg. 'Sindaturn2' ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #19 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Laurence G. Tilley" (laurence@lgtilley.demon.co.uk) Subject: MEPBM Lonely Mountain encounter Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:35:35 +0100 Does anyone have information on this encounter more complete than the following?: If not, I suppose I'd better try swimming. ---------------------------------------------- 4.14 The Lonely Mountain Description: character encounters a cave and stream while climbing the Lonely Mountain. Human bones can be seen outside the cave. Locations: 3108. Options Free Peoples Neutrals Nations Dark Servants EXPLORE the caves combat combat combat SWIM the river CLIMB the mountain combat combat State your ALLEGIANCE no effect no effect no effect Say your NAME Say (only one word) FLEE escape escape escape Notes: trolls live in the cave and will attack a character who gives an inappropriate response. While the trolls are difficult to defeat, a character will generally escape any combat with them. There's probably something interesting in the cave, but I've never heard of anyone having this encounter with a powerful enough character to defeat the trolls. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: (101746.774@compuserve.com) Subject: MEPBM MAILING LISTS? Date: 6 Jun 1996 00:05:50 GMT Does anyone know about a Middle Earth PBM mailing list anywhere? Im new on interner and I have not found one. If somebody knows please tell me. Thanks, Javier ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from draugnar@iglou.com (Draugnar) ------------------------------------------------------------------- An actual mail list that you can subscribe to doesn't exist to the BOMK, but I keep threatening to let my Windows 95 machine act as one and set one up on it. It has a 64K ISDN and would be able to do the job. Personally I think MePBM needs a alt.games.MePBM newsgroup, but thats just me... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #21 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Laurence G. Tilley" (laurence@lgtilley.demon.co.uk) Subject: MEPBM Failure to reveal pop center Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 21:39:55 +0100 Any bright sparks who can explain the following?: Mage 61(151) moved to Hidden Pop. He then cast Reveal Pop Centre. The description said "xxxx is revealed (but still hidden) at hex#. Continued efforts may succeed." His casting rank for the spell is 35 with a +90 from artefacts. The spell was obviously cast successfully but why was the pop not revealed permanently? My understanding of the spell is if you are in the same hex as the PC then it is permanent. My only thought is that you may have to score under your base casting rank to make it so. Can anyone enlighten me? Note also that the Mantle of Doriath is safely in our, not enemy hands. ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from v123h3m2@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Mark Jaede) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Nothing in the rulebook suggests an explanation to me, and the explanation you propose seems contrary to my experience with other spells where I have found that mage artifacts reliably add to casting ranks and to the rate of success in casting a spell. The only comparable experience I have had is with Locate Artifact True, where I once successfully cast the spell for Vilya (cast rank improved) but did not get the location. But the rules (pg 33) say the artifact spells are special cases. I suggest another possibility. Your opponents may have discovered another hiding artifact and used it after your spell went off. Circulated lists notwithstanding, I think there are artifacts out there with powers no one has bothered to discover. How often do you spend a precious order on a Research spell? I rarely do. ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from Tracy Scott (tscott@interlog.com) ------------------------------------------------------------------- I've had the exact same problem, but not with +90 in artifacts. I had a 46 reveal spell with a +30 artifact and got that response 2 turns in a row. I transfered another +35 to the same mage and specified the hex I was in (even though according to the rules you don't have to) and I've cast it successfully 2 times in a row. If nothing alse you may want to specify your hex and try it again. ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from draugnar@iglou.com (Draugnar) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Much about spell casting has to do with two things. Natural mage rank and casting chance of success. You were "guaranteed" success in CASTING the spell, but the low skill of 35 didn't guarantee the spells outcome. This is the same with several of the locates and with Conjuring spells. You may cast conjure mounts at 135, but if you are a natural 40 mage, you only get 200 mts max. That's the best logic I can find for it. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #22 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mornhm@prairienet.org (Kevin J. Brown) Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm Subject: MEPBM 2950 encounter solution needed Date: 18 Jun 1996 13:55:52 GMT Organization: Prairienet Lines: 32 Message-ID: (4q6ch8$3t@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu) NNTP-Posting-Host: bluestem.prairienet.org X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] OK, I need some help here. I have an encounter (should be for the Ring of Wind #1) "... had just bedded down for a good night's rest when his eyes were arrested by a soft glow emanating from over the next hill. Deciding that he had better discover the source of this glow, he picked up his belongings and made his way cautiously over the rise. As he drew closer, he noticed that the glow seemed to be coming from a small cave set back into the hill. He entered the cave ready for anything but halted in amazement when he entered the central chamber. Inside was a large dark mirror with constantly shifting images of people, places, and ancient artifacts. It was from the mirror that the glow was emanating. Across from the mirror stood a skeleton of a giant humanoid decked out in an assortment of intricately carved armor and holding a giant sword in readiness. Finally, between the mirror and the skeleton was a stout door set into the wall and fastened with a stout metal lock formed by an acient craft. Should ... Touch the mirror and call out a name (character ID) Touch the mirror and call out a place (Hex #) Touch the mirror and call out an artifact (Artifact #) Destroy the mirror Try to open the lock on the door Attack the skeleton Steal the armor and weapons from the skeleton Flee" I'm a Free People if that makes a difference. The character(s) in question have multiclass skills if that makes a difference which skill should I use? Please reply by email or post. ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from Lucinda Gainey (lucinda@nando.net) ------------------------------------------------------------------- I chose "FLEE" with this encounter and got away. I really wanted to "Touch the mirror ..." but couldn't afford to lose the character at that time should things turn out badly. Let me know what you decide to do and how it turns out. I'm trying to compile a list of encounters and riddles for the 2950 game. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #23 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tracy Scott (tscott@interlog.com) Subject: MEPBM 2950 Dragon Encounter Date: 19 Jun 1996 01:55:07 GMT I've got a Dragon Lord character who just encountered Turukulon. My notes suggest that offering 10,000 gold (ouch), or maybe offering 2 artifacts (which this character does not have on her), will recruit this dragon for the Dragon Lord. Does anyone know of another possible solution? If I offer 2 artifacts does the character have to give them that turn, or can I offer them once the dragon joins an army? ------------------------------------------------------------------- response from mick@wwa.com (Mick Shields) ------------------------------------------------------------------- If you offer two artifacts, you better have them with you, I just tried it with the same player in 2950 and was allowed to escape 25 life. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #24 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Jenner (jenner@sol13.cs.wisc.edu) Subject: ME-PBM Desert Resources Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:10:20 -0500 I play the Khand Easterlings in a game of 2950, and I was thinking of placing a camp in the big desert below Mordor. I also have a mage with Reveal Production, and I was wondering what product, besides leather and mounts (of which I have plenty), to search for. I read somewhere that steel could be found in the desert, but food would also be desirable. Any and all advice is appreciated. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Interesting and Confusing Occurrence ==================================== By Darrell Shimel I am currently playing the Woodmen in 2950-48. I recently moved an army of 2600 HI (Cmdr 42, Morale 48, Training 12, Weapon 10, Armor 0) to Gundabad. The MT/FT was still intact, but thanks to a teammates assassination, it had no defending army. Using the combat calculator that I downloaded from the Allsorts homepage, I calculated that I would not be able take Gundabad unless it had a loyalty of 13 or less. Since the Rangers had an army poised to capture Mt Gram and the NG had an army attacking (to cause siege) on Minas Morgul, it was decided that I would attempt to capture (to cause siege) instead of waiting for the fort to be sabotaged. When I received my results, my capture had succeeded!!! Again, this would only be possible if the MT had a loyalty of 13 or less. Now for the really baffling part. My army was reduced to 1101 HI. The only way to take this kind of loss is if Gundabad had a loyalty of about 76. I am playing a team game with some very experienced players. They don't have any idea about how this could have happened. If anybody has a clue, please write to Darrell.Shimel@MCI.COM. And More.... ============ From Darrell Shimel I had a recent experience that I believe the readers of the "Mouth" will find very interesting. I was able to capture a population center which I should not have been able to. Could there be a critical success/failure factor built into an order which is, seemingly, as straight forward as Capture Population Center? I was attacking Mt. Gundabad. The Rangers were capturing Mt. Gram the same turn. North Gondor had an army which was attacking to cause siege to Minas Morgul. We expected to bankrupt the WK, but suspect he didn't run the turn since none of his camps disbanded. The Combat Calculator I downloaded from the Allsorts web page could not predict the results. Also, the esteemed Mr. Mason and the honorable Mr. Jaede can't figure it out. Below is the description of events which I sent GSI. To: gsi@elink.net Subject: How the heck did this happen? Interesting and Confusing Occurrence I am currently playing the Woodmen in 2950-48. I recently moved an army of 2600 HI (Cmdr 42, Morale 48, Training 12, Weapon 10, Armor 0) to Mt Gundabad. The MT/FT was still intact, but thanks to a teammates assassination, it had no defending army. Relations were hated. ADDENDUM: I didn't have any Artifacts, Spells or Attachments.> I calculated that I would not be able take Gundabad unless it had a loyalty of 13 or less. I decided that I would attempt to capture (to cause siege) instead of waiting for the fort to be sabotaged. When I received my results, my capture had succeeded!!! Again, this would only be possible if the MT had a loyalty of 13 or less. Now for the really baffling part. My army was reduced to 1101 HI (301 after I retired 800). The only way to take this kind of loss is if Gundabad had a loyalty of about 76. I am playing a team game with some very experienced players. They don't have any idea about how this could have happened. Could this be a flaw in the code, or is this a undocumented feature when attacking the turn a player is bankrupted? Darrell Shimel THE RESPONSE FROM GSI Darrell, We reviewed the combat simulation over the weekend, and everything worked out fine. Given the various factors involved (commander rank, training, morale, weapon/armor rank, terrain, tactics and loyalty) the combat results were as expected. You survived the assault with 1101 troops (out of 2600) and retired 800, leaving 301 in your army. We can not go into details about the above factors, but you may wish to go over your calculations to see if you can detect some difference in your calculations. If you have any other questions in this regard, feel free to contact us. Good gaming! Bill Feild THE MORAL. With every story, there should be moral. Here is mine. Since I had no chance of succeeding, I didn't think that it would matter if I issued Capture or Destroy. I almost issued the Destroy Population Center order as a private joke. This would have been disastrous as I needed the town to save my economy. Untitled Fiction ================ By Dave Rossell "I say enough of this groveling!" Eldrich slammed his fist on the table, sloshing the contents of tankards onto the battered surface. "We have withstood the raiding parties of the Dunedain for generations. And now we endure the insults of the dwarves!? Bah!" Spittle dribbled from his lip as he raked the other clan thanes with his gaze, his dark eyes glaring from between bushy eyebrows and a massive beard. Arfanhil returned the gaze with languid, unconcern. He sprawled in the Clanchiefs' seat, taking a calculated pose of ease that did not mirror his own thoughts. Arfanhil had won the title of Clanchief through wits and leadership. Aye, he had skill with the blade, no Hillman could lead without it, but he preferred talking to fighting, and ambush to a fair fight any day. The Hillfolk might prattle on about glory, he had told Broggha one day, but it is far more glorious to live by treachery than to die by honor. Broggha had agreed, but, for all his reputation as the Arm of the Clanchief, he had a subtlety of mind that Eldrich never would. "I say we attack the Dunedain now, while they are weak and we are strong! We shall destroy Metriath, leave Tharbad in ashes, and march on to victory and glory!" Eldrich finished with a growl slammed his dagger into the table, leaving it quivering with its tip several fingerspans into the wood. Other clan thanes muttered their assent. Eldrich was a bear of a man, and spoke well. Best to stop this now. "So, you disagree with my proposal," asked Arfanhil with a voice pitched softly enough to force the thanes to quiet if they were to hear him. He toyed with the arm of his chair then lifted his eyes to Eldrich, locking the man in his gaze. "You feel the thanes have misplaced their trust in my judgement." Arfanhil, from the tone of his voice, could have been discussing a minor disagreement over the merits of a staghound, but the hall went very, very still. Eldrich licked his lips, and glanced to both sides. He apparently saw something there that seemed like support. "Aye," he whispered. "I question whether the Hillmen should have as Clanchief a weakling child who would rather read than fight," his voice rose to a bellow, "who would rather bow down in fear be-" He stopped, and his gaze moved briefly to the speartip protruding from his chest, before he fell his full six feet to the floor. The broad-headed spear driven through his spine was rock-steady. Broggha wrenched it from the corpse, now leaking blood and excrement over the floor. He carefully wiped the head on Eldrich's clothing, and made his way to the Clanchief's chair with his slow, limping walk, the product of an orc blade that cut his left hamstring some ten summers past. The drag-thump of his limp and spear echoed through the silent hall. For all his apparent clumsiness, Broggha had a way of moving unobtrusively, more of blending into a crowd than of walking in silence, but it was uncanny nonetheless. Arfanhil nodded once, as though bidding good morrow, and Broggha limped over to his right side, leaning heavily on the spear, too proud and too stubborn to use a staff or cane. Broggha did not have the best grasp of tactics and strategy; he could not play one faction against another, but by all the ancestors he was tough as dragon-hide, strong as the mountains, and a hero more times over than anyone could count. Few understood the friendship that had developed between Arfanhil and Broggha, but that suited Arfanhil fine, because people cannot defeat what they do not understand. "Are there any others who dispute my rights as Clanchief?" Arfanhil looked into the eyes of each and every thane, but not before his own gaze "accidentally" traveled over the fallen Eldrich. Someone cleared a throat, but Broggha happened to shift his grip on the spear and there was no more noise. "Good." Arfanhil said, sitting up straight in the chair and adopting his Clanchief Making Policy voice. "Then hear me and obey, my thanes. Too long have the Hillfolk suffered from constant warfare. Too long have we scratched out an existence in these foothills, prey to wargs and men alike. Too long have we allowed the shadow of Angmar to darken our borders and dictate our lives. That time is past." Dramatic pause, make eye contact. Best not to lose them now . . "The Dunedain have sent ambassadors, and have treated us with honor and respect. The Noldo likewise, and they offer us items of power as tribute. We have a chance to end our warfare of generations and make lives of prosperity for our people again. And there is more honor in seeing our children live, and in us living to see our grandchildren, than in all of the great deeds of yore combined!" Finally,nods of approval. He motioned the Noldo and Cardolan ambassadors forward. "We hereby declare all disputes with the Dunedain and the Free Peoples to be things of the past! We shall fight side-by-side with them to cleanse the land of the Enemy, to burn out every last orc den from Angmar to the Land of Shadow!" Arfanhil stood and drew his dagger. " We pledge the allegiance of the Hillfolk to the cause of the Free Peoples, and we pledge the allegiance of our allies, the Corsairs of Umbar. By our blood and the bones of our ancestors we will uphold our committment to you." He slashed his palm with the dagger, letting the blood drip onto the floor. "Will you do the same?" "Aye," said Finduilas. "By our blood and the bones of our ancestors, we pledge the allegiance of the Free Peoples to you." She took the dagger and cut her palm, clasping it to Arfanhil's. "Aye," said Elrohir. "By our blood and the bones of our ancestors, we pledge the allegiance of the Free Peoples to you." He took the dagger, and cut his palm, then clasped his hand to Arfanhil's and Finduilas'. "Then it is done." Arfanhil turned to the thanes. "Ready your troops. We ride on Angmar in the morning! -" The rest of his words were drowned out by the cheers and banging of swords on shields. Influencing Game Winners ======================== by Anonymous I was recently rereading back issues of "The Mouth" and liked the idea of the controversy generating "In your Ear" section. I'll rename it "In Your Face", and I hope to stir up some discussion with this one. I am currently in my first game of ME-PBM. I signed up for a team 2950 game as the Free. The four other payers on my "Team" had played only once before. We were paired with another team of five players. The other players were MUCH more experienced. At least three of them cashed in Game Winners Certificates to get their positions. The result, me and my friends got the lousy positions. Woodmen, Northmen, Rangers, S. Gondor, and Silvan Elves. Moral: Game Winner's Certificates are extremely valuable. You can use one to get a good nation, which in turn increases your chances of getting a Game Winner's Certificate. Now, the current situation: South Gondor has not contributed a single troop, character action, or piece of gold to the war effort. He actually lent some money to the Silvan, then demanded it back the next turn. Even though there wasn't an enemy in sight, he wanted to build a castle. The result is that he is way out in front for the VC chase. It is only turn 9, but as the Woodmen I have defeated 3 Dragon Lord armies, captured Mt. Gundabad, and scouted numerous characters for my allies. Noldo and Rangers have given me 37,000 gold. Everyone is fighting and bleeding except SG. Well, WW and Duns haven't been very active since joining our cause. Issue 1: What is the etiquette in launching a character war against nations that have sat on their fat rumps while the rest of the nations have bleed the enemy dry? In a team game, the winners certificates should go to the team players. I have read many articles from neutrals, in which the whine about joining a side early, and still being the target of a character war. In preventing a character war, it is not how soon you join, it's what you do once you have joined. Issue 2: What is the etiquette on transferring assets to a friend? From our team of five, the Northmen, Rangers and me are friends. We would like to see one of our group get a game winners certificate. Northmen and I are contemplating transferring our population centers to the Rangers before dropping. They have good characters but no population center base. Giving him the population center base of three nations will probably ensure him a place, unless the other players launch a character war. Believe it or not, I feel that they would be justified in the character war. As far as Issue 1 goes, I do not fear the wrath of S. Gondor. He doesn't play often and I'm really miffed at his actions in this game. I may meet the White Wizard again in a future game, but I think he needs to get involved in this game if he thinks we'll let him be a top finisher. Issue 2 however is another matter. I really like the people from the other team of 5. The names are easily recognized by reading back issues of "The Mouth". They have taught me how to play the game. I wouldn't know half what I do, if not for them. Does my loyalty go to the friends I joined with or friends I made in this game?? The end game is rapidly approaching. WK and Rhun are gone. Drg Ld will be out within a few turns. Duns, WW, and Corsairs are Free, and the Khand say that they will join soon. Once Morannon falls, I will probably split my pop. centers between Rangers, Sindar and Noldor. At game start, I said that in the end game I would aid the nations which aided me. I owe the Rangers 20,000 gold and the Noldor 17,000. I'm sure they'll each take a Mts in trade. The Sindar have practically taught me everything I know about ME-PBM. He deserves my gratitude, and perhaps a Game Winner's Certificate. I guess the point should be, that I am really enjoying this game. I'm sure that my teammates will recognize who I am. I would like to say thanks to all the Free who helped crush the evil which invaded our lands. May the Servants of Darkness arise again soon so that I can enjoy kicking their donkeys again. More on Game Winners ==================== By Tom Walton Inspired somewhat by the previous article, I'd like to point out that GSI's victory conditions have little to do with how well a player fulfills his obligations to his team. Those that fight the most and the hardest often end up with some of the worst scores, while those who sit on their lazy asses and indulge in backstabbing at every opportunity will generally take a place at the winner's circle. The reasons for this are relatively obvious if one actually thinks a bit about the four sets of victory conditions: - Armies. Armies only count for points up until they're used. Once used, much of your army is gone (or all of it, if you lost) and your victory points decline correspondingly. That means that you've every incentive to build large armies for points, but to avoid fighting at almost any cost. Someone aiming for the winner's circle in exclusion to the well-being of his teammates will do just that: create impressive armies and then refuse to put them in the field. That hardly shows any skill at generalship. In fact, to those of us who actually do have some strategic skill, it's contemptable and cowardly. But it does get you points. I know of no other strategy PBM - at least among the ones that I've played - where acting like a coward is rewarded. - Characters. Using characters extensively puts them at risk, and through the law averages you're bound to lose a few. The higher the skill rank, the more the character is worth in victory points, the less incentive you have to risk that character. Like armies, players have every reason to build up characters and very little to put them at risk. This is most often seen with Noldo sickness', wherein the players with the truly effective characters refuse to get involved for fear of losing said characters. Again, sheer cowardice is rewarded. - Gold. Gold gets you points. Once again, the game rewards you for hoarding resources, not using them effectively. The more you hoard the better off you are in terms of vp's. Gold pieces hoarded are resources unused, a tool never employed against the enemy. - Pop centers. One might argue that this is actually somehow relevant to real victory, as it inspires the player to go out and take towns from other people. In practical application, however, this is rarely the case. It's more likely that a player will build up his score by putting down camps and improving them to cities, or perhaps snatching pop centers that aren't well-guarded. And in some games, it's just as likely for a vp-oriented player to do this to his allies via emissaries as it is for him to go after the enemy. It's *less risky* because an ally can't downgrade you to hated. Doing to an ally also means that you don't have to defend your ill-gotten gains with armies, as the nation you wronged can't attack you. This goes back to armies and the preservation thereof. In all, the victory conditions are specifically set to reward players who refuse to take risks and who maneuver other's into doing the fighting for them. It punishes the players who throw everything they've got at the enemy without regard to their own nation's well-being. And who has the most effect on the game? The latter kind of player, of course. The former, by definition, usually has little real effect on the disposition of his team and often proves to be a royal pain the in ass. So when someone brags about winning a game, think long and hard about what it took to get that certificate. Ask yourself if you *really* want to trust that person to guard your back; I sure as hell wouldn't. Dragon Encounters versus Dragons in Personal Challenge ====================================================== By Mark Jaede In past issues there has been some discussion of strategies whereby the Free Peoples may offset the huge advantage which dragons give the Dark Servants. One suggested method was for the Free to put together a super challenge character to exterminate dragons. The necessary challenge rank is not known, but some players report consistent victories at about Ch 240. I can neither confirm nor deny these reports from my own experience, but I do want to share an unfortunate experience I had in a 2950 game. Playing the Sinda Elves, I had built Galadriel up to 245 Challenge with Tinculin and some training. I then sent her into the Misty Mountains as a dragonslayer. She found a dragon easily enough -- Turukulon. I thought Galadriel was invincible, and ordered her to Attack Turukulon with the React to Encounter order. My hope was that she would gain gold and/or spells by going through the encounter rather than issuing a personal challenge. Wrong, wrong, wrong! Turukulon smotched Galadriel like a bug, and the encounter report gave no indication that the wyrm was even scratched. Indeed, the dragon gloated that Galadriel never had a chance. This suggests that encounter combat may work very differently from challenge combat. Perhaps if Galadriel had had a dragon-slaying artifact she might have done better in the encounter, but the report suggests that her challenge rank per se was irrelevant. On the other hand, she might well have won had she issued a challenge to Turukulon instead of going through the encounter. She would not have gotten any special goodies, but she would have been alive and would have gained some mage rank. The good news, such as it was, was that Galadriel's artifacts were easily recovered in the same hex by other Free mages using the 900 order. So take a lesson! It is possible to defeat a dragon by challenge, but don't count on challenge rank alone to get you through an encounter with a dragon (or perhaps other big nasty NPCs). Get yourself an appropriate artifact first, and then try attacking a dragon in an encounter. You first. Let me know how it works out. Tom's note: alas, I confirmed this in my first year of playing, straight from the Mouth of GSI. During that time, I used to send them pages of questions, often variations upon a theme, to see what kind of answers I'd get. GSI told me, flat out (and in a later missive said they couldn't reveal the game mechanics (grin)) that encounters and challenges shouldn't be confused. Challenges use straight mechanics discussed in these electronic pages in past issues; encounters, on the other hand, throw those mechanics to the wind and travel entirely different paths. On the plus side, hopeless battles can be avoided by characters unable to defeat a dragon; on the down side, supercharacters can be slaughtered at whim by the dragon should the encounter go wrong. The character's challenge rank has nothing to do with the encounter outcome unless, through the odd twists and turns, the encounter actually *does* devolve to a challenge battle. Last Word ========= From Brian Mason I'm going to keep this brief, as I don't want to to waste your time while I wage my neverending battle to generate some new propundities of profundities. I'm just going to end with my usual diatribe against worms. Boy I hate dragons. There is nothing more frustrating than to lose a game to an accountant: a player whose playing acumen leans heavily on their possession of a good encounter database. As a player it is foolish to not use all weapons that are available. I don't expect Dark Servant players that I might come up against to forgo dragons on "a matter of principle;" rarely does one find those who follow the example of Beorhtnoth. I suppose my biggest gripe here then is with GSI. I can see the need of Dark Servants to have some other weapon since their economies start out so much weaker, however, and this cannot be stressed enough, DRAGONS ARE NOT HISTORICALLY ACCURATE. Say what you will about I.C.E. and their creations, but the fact is that only Morgoth could command dragons, not Sauron, and certainly not one of his lesser minions. The best thing I can say about the new game (F.A. 1000) is that I've yet to find a dragon and that players start on equal footings (more or less). Grumble, grumble, grumble (that's enough). Brian