From the Mouth of Sauron
Date: 10-31-96
Issue: E-46
Note: all authors retain exclusive rights to their material.
Reprinting is allowed for non-commercial game use only.
The Mouth is edited by Brian Mason and Tom Walton. All
correspondence can be sent to them at:
Brian Mason - mason@chara.gsu.edu
Tom Walton - crazymax@rio.com
Back issues of "From the Mouth of Sauron" and the general info files
are available at chara.gsu.edu via anonymous ftp.
First Word
==========
From Tom Walton
I tried something new in the Fourth Age playtest game I was in, the
one that just came to an end. Something that goes completely
against my nature, and which I haven't attempted for years.
I tried to be peaceful.
As many of you know, I set my own victory conditions when I play a
game, and they have little to do with collecting points. This time
around, I decided my nation would be victorious if I could enforce
a lasting peace upon the region I was in: northern Mirkwood. If
Princemarch could remain free of conflict, it's citizens living in
safety from it's murderous neighbors regardless of what else
happened in Middle-Earth, then all was good with the world.
It worked. Under my own terms, I won. The entire game passed
without a single invasion, nay, even a single army - friendly or
enemy - getting anywhere near my borders. Princemarch, despite
having more than 10,000 warriors under arms, never once engaged in
battle. Or perhaps because it fielded a huge army; there's
something to be said for deterrance.
And now I remember why I generally go the conquitador's route: peace
is *boring*. It's witlessly, excruciatingly dull beyond words.
Let's face it: war is far more exciting than peace. Pretend war
anyway; the real thing isn't nearly so much fun. But in our pretend
wars is where the action is, the adrenalin if you will, and that's
where we get to see if we're able to outguess and outmaneuver our
opponents. Now, one might argue that being able to go for more than
20 turns in a free-wheeling environment without loosing a single
arrow, whilst at the same time building an economic giant of
enormous proportions, is also a test of skill; but even so, it does
nothing to stir the blood.
I did learn that I can be a decent diplomat if forced into the role,
but the key here is that I pretty much have to be shoved kicking and
screaming into that assignment; I'd much rather stomp on my
neighbor's sorry ass than bargain with him. I harbor a desire,
barely held in check in playtest 2, to conquer, enslave, pillage,
and dominate which makes lesser' pursuits of little interest.
And this I found a bit intriguing.
In many of the games I've played in over the years - pbm, computer,
board, even rpg - players have a tendency to want to be the hero.
They want to be Luke Skywalker or Aragorn or King Arthur, fighting
for the greater good against the Evil Bad Guys. To them, being the
joe (or jane) in the White Hat, the idol of the masses, a paragon of
virtue and knighthood, is a very good thing - one to strive for.
My heroes, however, have never been the good guys. I don't much
care for their moral high-mindedness, their antiseptic way of
looking at life, or their inability to occasionally stoop into the
mud to achieve an end. My heroes are the Darth Vader's, the
Witch-King's and the Morgana's; the fallen who still command a great deal
of respect, who wield fear like a weapon, and who come within inches
of smashing those self-righteous heroes into pulp. They are, very
much, like the angels who challenge god in the Christian mythology;
you know they're going to lose, since human beings hate it when the
bad guys win, but hell - they try anyway. *Someone's* got to try, or
there isn't a story to be told. Without a challenge, without sides,
without some Black Hats to face off against the White Hats, no one
remembers anyone wearing a Hat at all.
When I play ME-PBM, I don't want to be a good guy; I want to be a
bad guy. And I want to win as a bad guy, to make up for all the
times the bad guys have lost in the movies, the books, and the
games. I want to throw a new Shadow over Middle-Earth, one that'll
roll over the land and crush hope and resistance beneath it's
weight. To hell with peace-loving hobbits and snooty Elves and
talking trees; to hell with Aragorn and his Dunedain rabble. They
and their goodness and light can go take a long walk off a short
pier.
In any event, my taste for peace has been sated for another decade.
In my next Fourth Age game, I intend to make up for lost time, and
lost opportunities, by playing a nation of religious fanatics -
fanatics that convert the heathen (meaning everyone else) by the
sword, or the rack, or the burning brand. I intend to explode over
Middle-Earth bringing terror and despair to all foolish enough to
get in my way - or simply be within reach - and let nothing at all
move to stop me. Death will be the order of the day; death and a
ruined wasteland where only my troops and carrion birds roam.
If you happen to get into a Fourth Age game with my religious
fundamentalists sometime in the next couple of months, beware -
there will be no reprieve, and there will be no mercy. I've dished
out enough of both in playtest 2 to last me a lifetime. Just war,
this time around; war to the bloody finish.
As it should be.
Tom
News From the Net
=================
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #1
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "facade" (facade@localnet.com)
Subject: Re: ME-PBM Fourth Age
Date: 12 Sep 1996 01:08:16 GMT
In my opinion the 4th age sounds like just another one of any
number of fantasy battle royals, one with a very mediocre combat
system. If that's what you want there are many better and cheaper.
The best thing about previous MEpbm's has been the Tolkienesq flavor
and one's ability to recognize the characters you encounter.
Everyone knows that Ji Indur is a badass assassin and that's the
good part. It inspires one's emotions and desires. Killing Ji Indur
is something to brag about, killing character brand X is a big
whoopteedoo.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from kgp8d@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Keith G. Parker)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Anybody out there know of a reason why a First Age scenario couldn't
be developed? The mythology and geography of the Silmarillion would
provide an excellent setting. KP
-------------------------------------------------------------------
EDITORIAL INTRUSION
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I once suggested this to Bill, and went so far as to plan out some
positions, suggest characters, etc. While he confessed that it was
interesting, the major objection put forth was the cost to develop
a new map. - Brian
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #2
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: draugnar@iglou.com (Draugnar)
Subject: New MePBM Web Page Under Construction. PROBLEM SOLVED!
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:19:23 GMT
OK, Ladies & Gents...
For those of you who were using Netscape Navigator 2.0 or later and
tried to get on my page, I greatly apologize. It seems this neat
little programming "trick" that I used to update multiple frames
without redrawing the entire window didn't work under Netscape
Navigator.
I have now worked two sets of code; one for the Internet Explorer
3.0 people and one for the Netscape Navigator 2.0 or greater people.
To go to the page which will let you pick which one you want, point
your browser here:
http://199.222.179.253/MePBM/index.html
I have put a simple page there that let's you select either wep page
or you can select it from the following URLs:
Internet Explorer 3.0:
http://199.222.179.253/MePBM/IEindex.html
Netscape Navigator 2.0 and greater:
http://199.222.179.253/MePBM/NNindex.html
As time goes by (as in ASAP), I will add additional sections to both
of these documents and, eventually, may even create a non-frame
version. Although, this would be reinventing the wheel as several
non-frame versions already exist.
Check it out and give me your input, please. I'd love to here
comments either way...
L8r!
Robert "Draugnar" Bolin
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #3
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: welostr2@concentric.net
Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm
Subject: ISO: ME-PBM 1650 starting player position
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:46:53 GMT
Does anyone know where I can find maps and/or stats for the starting
positions in ME-PBM 1650?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from Carl Zachary (cbzach@aol.com)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
BZACH's MEPBM IInfo Page at
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/3615/
or
Web Warrior MEPBM Page at
http://www.resnet.uconn.edu/~jason/mepbm.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #4
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kgp8d@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Keith G. Parker)
Subject: GSI's e-mail results
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 21:42:55 GMT
Hey! Anybody out there just recently have any problems with GSI's
MEPBM e-mail results? Mine were working out just fine, but my last
two turns the files have been corrupted. GSI claims they can read
them just fine. The only thing I can think of is that my server
just recently updated its version of PINE. I also have access to
Netscape mail, so if any of you guys know how to decode the files
with that could you let me know? Thanks! KP
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #5
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gloom@msn.com (Aaron Loomis)
Subject: ME2950-Help on Encounters
Date: 20 Sep 96 08:28:20 -0700
I have the two following encounters and have heard no answers that
can win. I am playing the Free and have mid to high level mages at
each encounter alone.
Durin's Bane, the Balrog
I can:
Mention SAURON's name
APOLOGIZE for intrusion
ATTACK the Balrog (not the best choice for character at this time)
tell a STORY about getting lost
OFFER Balrog money or artifacts
BOW down to Balrog
FLEE
Any facts out there? A little different than the standard 1650
Balrog
The next encounter is the Pukel guardian, but I do not know the
weakness. I have stealth , so maybe steal, no agent skill though.
cave with oblong block of stone engulfed in transparent blue glow
I can:
attack PHYSICALLY to drive off guardian
attack MAGICALLY to dispel wards
creep silently and REMOVE item
leap forward and STEAL item
WAIT and see if shimmering dissapears
declare ALLEGIANCE
say_________
FLEE
Any facts on this one out there. My Mouth of Sauron source can not
be found
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from Todd Jenner (jenner@vega5.cs.wisc.edu)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I've tried a few characters on this one. I believe, from experience
and help from other people, that the first four correspond to your
characters, so that Command would use PHYSICALLY, etc. (I think
Emissary is STEAL, but I'm not sure.) I think WAITing is bad, but I
don't know about the other two. FLEEing is fine. The highest
challenge rank for my characters was 60 or so, and he failed. I'd
say 80+ is your best bet. =>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #6
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nl@kvl.dk (Niels)
Subject: Re: MEPBM Riddles
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 14:10:03 GMT
Carl B Zachary (CBZACH@aol.com) wrote:
>Need help with two Riddles
>Riddle 1
>Hard and fierce these warriors be,
>Though they number less than a score.
>Cold steel doth seek to cut them down,
>Yet these heroes do return for more.
>Let both good and evil beware this band,
>For they can always be found at hand.
>Riddle 2
>Developed to be a bearer of sound
>It yest won acceptance for centuries around
>From elf to man and even dwarven kind
>It kept all together and in knowledge did bind.
>Thanks
>Carl B Zachary
Hello
I have a shot at both riddles:
The first answer could be (your) Fingers:
They number less han a score and they are always found at hand
(lousy pun). I dont know about the parts mentioning Cold steel...
The second answer sounds like Writing/Alphabet or perhaps the name
of the first elven alphabet Tengwar or Quenya which of the two came
first eludes me at the moment.
Niels
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #7
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sheppard@onramp.net (Andy Sheppard)
Subject: MEPBM - Balrogs
Date: 21 Sep 1996 19:31:25 GMT
Playing the (freep) Duns in a 1650 game, I encountered a Fire King
army. He had "A Balrog" with him, which proceeded to rip my army
apart during the combat just like a dragon would. The combat report
we quite impressive - "A Balrog, a great fiery being with a long
whip and...". Now, it makes sense that the Fire King if anyone would
have a Balrog with his army, but how do you recruit him?
On the flip side, I had an 85 agent in the hex who managed to
assassinate the Balrog the same turn. I figure it's possible to
assassinate any NPC in the game, including dragons, but the downside
is bad news - what happens when you fail to assassinate someone with
a skill of 100? You take 100 points of damage...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #8
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dade-sc@ix.netcom.com(Leo DiBenigno)
Subject: MEPBM - Dragon Effect on Loyalty
Date: 21 Sep 1996 21:09:52 GMT
I play the Dwarves in a 2950 game.
A dragon (Smaug) has visited one of my pop centers and does not seem
to want to leave. My loyalty keeps dropping. I'm sending an Emmy
to counter this, but I want to know what will get rid of this
unwelcome pest short of a PC or other direct conflict. Thanks in
advance for any assistance. Best regards.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from mason@chara.gsu.edu (Brian D. Mason)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Not much you can do about a dragon influencing your pop center
except endure it. Sending an emmisary might get the emissary killed.
I'd advocate abandoning the hex and moving back after the lizard is
gone.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from "facade" (facade@localnet.com)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
You could try asking one of yer friendly neighorhood DS players
to come and recruit Smaug. (smirk) Oh and I'm sure Smaug will find
your Emmy delish!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from nl@kvl.dk (Niels)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Once your emissary gets there he will get an encounter with smaug.
When this encounter has been processed (i.e. your emissary has
reacted in some way), Smaug will move on after influencing one last
time.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #9
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "facade" (facade@localnet.com)
Subject: Re: ME PBM 1650 -Hints/Tips
Date: 21 Sep 1996 21:31:49 GMT
Andy Bodkin (andybod@b0dders.demon.co.uk) wrote in article
(NAOMWCAgycPyEwJE@b0dders.demon.co.uk)...
> Hi, if anyone has any hints or tips for playing the 1650 Middle
>Earth scenario as the Witch King and is happy to pass them on
>to a newbie to the system I'd be pleased to hear from you. >
I played Witch King in 155 and won so I can tell you what
worked for
me.
-- Jack yer tax rate up to as close to 100% as possible.
-- Recruit on every pop center that is larger than a village every
turn. Troops are vital to you so don't miss even a single turns
recruiting.
-- Get Rhudaur on your side at all costs, Dunlendings would be nice
but Rhudaur is critical.
-- Go on the offensive as soon as possible. Start taking free pop
centers and concentrate on either Arthedain or Cardolan and attempt
to take them out of the game. If you're in a single player game and
you strike hard and fast, you stand a good shot of at least cripling
one of them before the free in your area get organized.
Things I didn't do but would now.
-- Demand agent support from Mordor.
-- Name a couple emissaries and send them to the Misty mountains.
Have them each place a new camp and sit on it. With your high tax
rate you'll be losing 3 a turn from the loyalty of your pop centers
so naming lots of camps is out. However by staying put and
InfYouring every turn you accomplish 2 things. For one you keep the
camps alive and even more importantly you have two very good dragon
recruiting bases. I've had camps in those mountains that seemed to
almost every turn have a dragon come a visiting.
As long as you stay aggressive and keep taking the fight to
them you'll be doing ok. When you begin having battles on your
starting pop centers it'll be all down hill from there.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from draugnar@iglou.com (Draugnar)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
That wouldn't have been 236 would it? If so, I was Rhudaur and
rumors of my demise were greatly exagerrated. By moving my capital
for me and eliminating alot of my characters (and all of my armies)
the FP turned me into the greatest financial nation the DS ever saw.
No expenses and I setup so that I could single handedly market
manipulate virtually anything I wanted. It wound up being a lot of
fun and I was just getting the hang of it when the FP gave up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from Kevin Barry (kbarry@concentric.net)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, it wasn't 236. Sorry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #10
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pontus.gustavsson@mailbox.swipnet.se (Pontus Gustavsson)
Subject: ME-PBM
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:08:31
Any players in Allsorts 203, please contact me!
I'm playing Southern Gondor in a 2950 scenario. Are the locations of
encounters fixed or can I meet Smaugh the Great in say Umbar? :-) If
you know any encounters near Gondor, tell me!
One more question, if I attack a camp is it at all possible to
capture it or is it destroyed?
Pontus Gustavsson
[Editorial reply: the sucker's obliterated.]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #11
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ALS@email_address
Subject: MEPBM War Machines
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 96 11:32:08
Does anyone have any thoughts on how effective war machines actually
are? It appears that their timber cost is quite high compared to
their effectiveness against fortifications in the early stages of
the game. To take out a fort requires 30 war machines, or 15,000
timber. Also, they appear from the rules to be lost proportionally
to army losses. Any comments or thoughts on the costs and benefits?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from Patrick F. McGehearty (patrick@convex.COM)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are in an economically weak situation, war machines don't
look very exciting. Their cost of production vs combat power is
quite high. But there are some situations were they can have
substantial value, especially when you are in a resource rich
environment.
They only provide 200 combat points vs fortifications, which is the
same as 20 HI troops per war machine, but that is applied before any
weather/terrain/commander skill/loyalty modifications are made. In
an attack of a Mtn Fort by newly recruited troops with a new
commander, a single war machine can provide as much value as 160 HI.
30 war machines provide as much value as 4800 HI, or 12 turns of
recruiting in a MTown. The real value of the war machines is
provide rapid military buildup in order to take enemy fortifications
before the enemy can develop countermeasures. For example, it is
unusual for a Free nation to have an army survive 12 turns without
being under agent attack. To counter that problem, the Free nations
need to coordinate their efforts and ship enough timber to a couple
of points to build enough war machines take out fortified positions
in a single move from when the Darks first spot them. The
proportion of losses are not relevant, because if the Dark agents
have their act together, armies with war machines will have no
commanders after one or at most two battles.
War machines also can be built as part of a rapid recruiting measure
to fight a force that would otherwise move in and capture a critical
popcenter.
Finally, some people build war machines because they like the idea
of having such a powerful force, capable of smashing anything in its
path. :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from v123h3m2@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Mark Jaede)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
War machines are , as you say, rarely cost effective early in the
game. Even a nation with substantial timber production can probably
find something better to do with the stuff, such as sell it to raise
funds for armies and characters. In the mid- to end-game, however,
when the market has dropped and production has risen, war machines
make a lot more sense. Unlike troops, the machines don't eat or
demand pay, and can perform many turns of service at no additional
cost.
The key is to have enough of them in a single army. If you have
enough to level the fortifications of a pop center, you will incur
very few troop losses, and as a result will lose few war machines.
If you have but a few, they may provide you the bare margin of
victory in a single assault, but your substantial troop losses will
also lead to substantial war machine losses.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from Chris Whitfield (cerebus@swin.edu.au)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I think in most cases the costs for war machines never really add
up. Consider the costs involved and the money could be better spent
on HI.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from cx328@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (August Tischer)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
While the money might be better spent on HI, time and maintenance
are valid factors as well. Once war machines are made they require
no maintenance. Also, if you need some punch in a real hurry
against a well-fortified target, you can make an unlimited number of
war machines in just one turn (local timber and gold being the
limiting factors). In the early game you usually don't see war
machines. The gold and timber cost are too great, but if you can
afford them, they are very beneficial. I'm in a game (1650) where
the QA lost Vamag to the Corsairs and Lugarlur to the Haradwaith on
the same turn. While both of these nations could have overcome the
castles at those locations just by hiring more troops, their armies
are much larger after the battle because they implemented the use of
war machines to drop fortifications to forts.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #12
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: eichmann@ceres.amp.uni-hannover.de (Holger Eichmann)
Subject: MEPBM: army encounters
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:50:42 GMT
Hi!
I suppose I am not the first one who asks this question, but I
cannot remember that I ever heard an answer:
One of my allies found Gandalf at one of his towns. Because we know
that Gandalf increases the emissary ranks of all characters running
with an army, which encounters him, my ally wants to send an army to
that place and he wants to send all his emissaries into that army
via 870 MovJoin. The question: When does the army encounter happen:
After the Move Army and before the Move/Join Army order (then the
emis don't get a bonus to their ranks), or after the order 870
MovJoin?
Another question: Which rank does an agent need to 'persuade'
Gandalf to lend him his +50 mage artifact?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #13
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Laurence G. Tilley" (laurence@lgtilley.demon.co.uk)
Subject: MEPBM Riddle
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 19:55:29 +0100
Can anyone help me with this 2950 riddle?
Known by another name at first
Then renamed by he of the third and the first
Its accidents spoke of its black thirst
But too late was its nature seen to be accursed
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from Jeff Dobberpuhl (attorney@mr.net)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Could this be the sword Anglachel?
(From Turin Turambar)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from kgiven@aol.com (KGiven)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
It's GURTHANG. Known first as Anglachel, it was renamed by Turin
Turambar, who was descended from both the first and third houses of
Man in the First Age. It also had a black blade, and was fated to
always cause harm to its bearer in the end.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #14
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: eichmann@ceres.amp.uni-hannover.de (Holger Eichmann)
Subject: MEPBM: Questions about encounters
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:44:53 GMT
Hi!
I have two questions about encounters:
1. I learnt from the rulebook that, when a character gets an
encounter, every other character who is standing in that hex can
react to the encounter. And I know that a character who is running
with an army cannot get a character encounter. My question: Can a
character who is running with an army react to an encounter, which
another character found at the hex?
2. I heard that more than one character can react to a dragon
encounter during the same turn. Let's say character A finds a dragon
encounter. He doesn't give the Reaction to Encounter order, while
character B gives that order. Will only character B face the dragon
or also character A?
Perhaps I should explain the question: I just created a new
commander/agent at my capital, who found a dragon immediately.
Because dragons like Dwarves (most together with chips), I suppose
that my character will die. Because I don't want to waste the whole
10000 gold, I want to react to the encounter with a small commander
who is running with my capital army. I hope that commander dies and
my commander/agent survives. Will that plan work?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from kgiven@aol.com (KGiven)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, the age-old Dwarf problem. Nope, your plan won't work, for the
reasons you feared - characters travelling in armies can not react
to Character encounters in the hex. Here's one trick that does work
though - when creating a commander or a multi-class w/ commander,
Transfer Command of the army to him on the same turn. The trick, of
course, is to give the new character a name that GSI won't
disqualify & override.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #15
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ALS@email_address
Subject: MEPBM Food
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 10:06:22
It states in the rulebook that when an army runs out of food it
begins foraging and has its morale reduced. In addition, its
movement is supposed to slow to less than 75% of normal. Does anyone
know more precisely what the effects on movement are?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from draugnar@iglou.com (Draugnar)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The official GSI calculation is 4/3 the movement rate for each hex
rounded against your army's favor. If your movement through a hex
is normally 1, it becomes 2. 2 becomes 3, 3 becomes 4, 4 becomes 6
(not 5), 5 becomes 7, 6 becomes 8, 7 becomes 10 (not 9), 8 becomes
11, 9 becomes 12, and 10 becomes 14 (not 13). I give the higher
ones because stealthy movement is at twice normal, so a normal 5
would cost 14 without food and stealthy (theoretically).
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from kgiven@aol.com (KGiven)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. The movement cost for each hex is mulitplied by 4/3, and then
rounded up. A hex costing 2 would now cost 3, a 3 is now a 4, a 4
is now a 6, etc.. Note, that this makes it impossible to move into
a (non-road) mountain hex.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from eichmann@ceres.amp.uni-hannover.de (Holger Eichmann)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Some more comments: - rivers etc. are added to the movement cost,
before it is multiplied by 4/3. E.g. infantry without food moving
into a plain hex and crossing a river need 4/3*(3+2) = 20/3 -> 7
days for the movement
- An army moves with food, when it has at least 1 food at the start
of the movement order. So 100HI without food, which are standing at
a Major Town of the same nation, will move without food (although
the Major Town can feed 2500 troops; the 100HI will lose no morale).
BTW: I heard the rumour that forced march starts on day 0, while
normal march starts on day 1. Can anybody confirm or disprove this
rule?
A good possibility to show that this rule is wrong would be a
situation like this: Let's say army A moves via Forced March from
e.g. 3024 to 3124 and army B moves via Normal March from 3124 to
3024. If the rule is right, both armies MUST stop each other at
3124. When both armies are standing at 3024 after the turn, the
forch march must have started at the same time like the normal march
(perhaps I should explain the army movement that these sentences are
understandable: When army A moves from 3024 to 3124 and needs 6 days
for the movement, it moves to 3124 immediately at stays 6 days at
3124. The same for army B: It immediately moves to 3024 and stays
there 2 days. Because both movements are crossing each other, there
is a 50% probability that both armies are stopped at 3024 or at
3124, WHEN both armies starts their movements on the same day)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from lbundy@passport.ca (Larry Bundy)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Generally, add one movement point for any hex 3 or under and 2
points for over 3. ie, plains at 3 would be four movement points.
Cavalry in plains is 2 / without food add 1 making it 3. Rivers and
bridges are counted separately from hexes and have 1 point added to
their "with food" rate. It is not possible to enter a mountain hex
(without a road) without food. Forest which is 5 points would be 7
points without food. Basically, you are dividing the original cost
by 3 and rounding upwards to a whole number. Hope that helps.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #16
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Carl B Zachary (cbzach@aol.com)
Subject: Allsorts MEPBM Website
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 17:29:39 -0700
Allsorts MEPBM Website new address is
http://www.suilven.demon.co.uk/allsorts/me/home.htm
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #17
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dade-sc@ix.netcom.com(dade-sc
Subject: MEPBM: Bard vs Smaug
Date: 14 Oct 1996 15:32:55 GMT
Just finished re-reading The Hobbit and wondered how close if at all
GSI tried to incorporate it and LotR into the actual game mechanics.
For example, if Bard of the Northmen moved from Esgaroth to the
Lonely Mountain and created a camp, he would likely have an
encounter with Smaug the Golden. Now, if Bard were then to PC
Smaug, would Bard win and kill the Dragon since this is what he did
in The Hobbit? In other words, would Bard be given a huge bonus to
his Challenge specifically against Smaug?
Has anyone playing The Northmen tried this strategy or heard of this
happening?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from Patrick F. McGehearty (patrick@convex.COM)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Some events have been included in the game, but not every detail of
the books is there. Except for starting characteristics, I don't
think any player-character specific encounters are included. So you
might think of Bard's defeat of Smaug to be the equivalent of a
critical success, 1 in 100 shot. It could happen, but don't count
on it. On the plus side, Gandalf and other non-player characters
wander around the board and provide special encounters (meeting
Gandalf is good for Free People and bad for Dark Servants, while
meeting Sauron has the reverse effect). There are a number of other
LotR and Hobbit specific encounters, including the possibility of
recruiting Ents (which are the equivalent of great war machines in
game terms) if a Free nation sends an army wandering in Fanghorn
forest. Also, the riddles tend to come from the various books. So
there is a a strong LotR flavor in the game, but the game does not
exactly match the
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from jaede@acsu.buffalo.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with Patrick that special encounter abilities for player
characters seem unlikely. I don't know of anyone specifically
sending Bard after Smaug, but I believe a friend tried sending
Aragorn into the Paths of the Dead and got nothing.
[another editorial comment: GSI specifically told me a couple of
years back that certain starting characters have advantages when
faced with particular encounters, then strongly hinted that Aragorn
and the Paths of the Dead were a good example. However, across all
the games I've played I've *never once* seen any starting character
get a bonus with any encounter at all.]
Patrick is mistaken, however, in saying that Ents act like war
machines. This is a persistent rumor which is doubtless based on the
account of the destruction of Isengard in LOTR. In fact Ents give
a combat bonus in the same way that dragons or Woses do. I've heard
the bonus estimated at 20,000 points, but I know of no firm
confirmation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #18
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cbzach@aol.com (Cbzach)
Subject: New encounter in MEPBM 2950?
Date: 13 Oct 1996 14:37:55 -0400
Anybody have any info on this encounter
Yarmilka is at camp when a sudden chill passes through her and a
shadow momentarily obscures the stars overhead. Alert and ready for
action, she scanned the surrounding terrain but could see nothing.
Then from out of the night she heard a hollow voice. "Little do I
like finding others so near to where my errands take me! Speak, lest
I silence you forever."
ATTACK the speaker
Declare your ALLEGIANCE
INTERROGATE the speaker about the errand
APOLOGIZE for the intrusion
REQUEST information
WAIT and say nothing
Say ______________ (only one word)
FLEE
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from cx328@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (August Tischer)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
It's CELGOR.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from wdb@dircon.co.uk (William D. Belben)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
It is indeed Celgor - good luck
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #19
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: panamon@netcom.com (Ian Verhaegen)
Subject: MEPBM Mirror/Skeleton encounter
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:01:21 GMT
I'm looking for anybody who has had the Encounter with the Mirror
and shifting images and the Skeleten in armor with a sword guarding
a door with a lock on it.
I need to know the character who encountered (type and rank) and
result.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #20
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cbzach@aol.com (Cbzach)
Subject: MEPBM Riddle
Date: 17 Oct 1996 16:56:07 -0400
Anyone have the answer to this riddle
To some it is fate
To others the symbol of hate
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #21
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dade-sc@ix.netcom.com(dade-sc
Subject: MEPBM 2950: encounter help needed
Date: 18 Oct 1996 19:47:41 GMT
Hi,
A Dwarven character (Emmy 40) had this message in the Iron Hills:
"He encountered a crevice in the hillside which he can investigate."
What's the encounter and should I investigate?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from jaede@acsu.buffalo.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This is an artifact encounter. You can issue an "investigate
encounter" order to learn more. You will either get a riddle or an
encounter with guardian spirits or wights. Most artifact encounters
seem to be riddles, but if you're not so lucky the spirits will tear
your little emmy to shreds. I usually limit my artifact searchers
to characters with challenge ranks above 70, unless i just feel i
can afford losing a character.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from drawes@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Mark Seward")
-------------------------------------------------------------------
If you can afford to lose the character, then yes, investigate.
If not, get a higher challenge character there and investigate
again.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #22
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tracy Scott (tscott@interlog.com)
Subject: MEPBM Food Question
Date: 18 Oct 1996 22:01:55 GMT
If an army is sitting at one of your pop centers with no food (but
being fed by the pop center), and it moves out, will you immediately
suffer the effects of no food, or does gsi assume that your army
ate at the pop center THEN moved out, thus giving you 1 free turn of
full movement before movement restrictions kick in?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from jaede@acsu.buffalo.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The movement rule boils down to this: if you have 1 or more food in
the baggage train at the point of movement, you move as a fed army.
In your case your food is at 0 and you move at the slower rate. Buy
or transfer in 1 food and you will have full movement for 1 turn.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #23
-------------------------------------------------------------------
rom: steve@narboro.demon.co.uk
Subject: mepbm riddle
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 19:05:31 GMT
Hi Tolkien fans,
I'm hoping you can help me solve a riddle;
"King was he, tho slain by dragon ire,
But a man is known by what he does,
And a hero of vengeance he did sire."
Any ideas?
Thanks in anticipation,
Steve Marlow.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from Tracy Scott (tscott@interlog.com)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the answer might be Girion, who was slain by Smaug, and was
the father of Girion II.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #24
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tracy Scott (tscott@interlog.com)
Subject: MEPBM 2950 Riddle
Date: 20 Oct 1996 01:35:18 GMT
Had this riddle recently:
Hunters they were
Not farmers or artisans they say
Wary they were, And then where driven away
Into the woods they ran
Far from human eye
Till only the coming of the dark
Made them less shy
My guess would be 'woses', but any help would be appreciated.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
response from kgp8d@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Keith G. Parker)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure you're right here. The riddle seems dead-on. KP
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Miscellaneous
=============
From Erik Gunderson
-------------------
In your ME2950 data file, I have noted 2 errors:
1. the riders of rohan has hex 2321 listed twice, as the location
of Aldburg and Edoras.
2. the dog lord has hex 2921 listed twice, as the location of
Lag-dagur and Ostigurth.
Would appreciate the actual locations!
Mouth of Sauron submission:
I am interested in adding to the setup data provided by Tom and
Brian in their ME1650/2950 files. I would like to compile
statistics on starting gold reserves for each nation, and starting
character locations. For example, what are the odds that Elrond is
at Imladris at game start, versus Elostirion? Is Cirdan always at
Mithlond? Is Murazor usually in the same spot? Etc.
If you would like to help, please send available set up infor to:
Erik Gunderson
1936 Carmel Drive
Plano, TX 75075
ewgundersn@aol.com
Look forward to hearing from you!
From Niels Lademark
-------------------
I am relatively new to MePBM with only a total of 40 turns under my
belt. I have had enormous benefit from your extensive database and
The Mouth of Sauron as well which I have read throughly.
However recent experience have shaken my belief in the oracles :-).
I have included three e-mails sent by me and the british MePBM
gamemaster Chris. The sum of it is that the combat artifact #83
orcist is not even near what you have described in your database.
It is listed as:
+2250 Good Aligned
In the Allsorts version of MePBM 1650 it is
+750 Neutrally aligned.
Naturally I am curious as to the discreprancy. Where did you get
your data?
[Tom's note: there are minor errors here and there in the databases.
Needless to say, we rely upon you, the diligent reader, to find and
correct them.]
I am a frequent guest at your FTP site and download both MoS and
your infofiles whenever they are updated. Most of the times the
changes to the infofiles are so minor that I cannot find them. Could
you include a brief list of the changes in the beginning of the
infofiles?
[Tom's note: that wouldn't be possible. We don't keep a log of the
changes as they come in; we simply correct our files once an error
has been found. If you want to find a change between one version of
the file and the next, download both and do a comparison search in
any decent word processor; the alterations should show up readily.]
In an encouter with Slyrdarch a challange 88 character defeated the
monster and nettet 12.000 gold, a lower amount than what you report
in the infofiles IIRC.
[Tom's note: gold obtained is variable for all of these encounters.
We simply list what we've seen to date, or been told about.]
I have also encounteres Galadriel, all of the mages in that army
were given spells from a lost list and the army morale was boosted,
but none of the mages recived ANY skill increase whatsoever (there
were three 50+ mages and one with a meager 10 in skill). So the
skill increase is not automatic.
In an encouter with Gostir in 3506 my FP 53 emissary acted MEEK and
escaped unharmed. Note that this is well below the xx03 hex range.
The climate was cold so perhaps the climate of the hex has some
influence on the movement of this wurm.
[Tom's note: this has been reported elsewhere as well. Gostir's
range seems to increase as the climate becomes colder. Even so,
Gostir is an extremely rare encounter, since very few characters
have any reason to travel within the wyrm's normal haunt.]
I have had six spider encounters in the Mirkwood area with low
skilled FP characters. The encounters were allways with the spider
Enna San Sarab, and only in one case did the character escape with
1 hp (as opposed to most of the time the character will escape...).
I tried the answer SAY "Enna" in one instance resulting in combat
(and a dead character). I am not sure if there are any Generic
spider encounter or if Enna San Sarab is the only one around. If a
generic encounter exists I suggest that you split up the encounter
description in your database in a generic encounter description and
the plague of the woodmen Enna San Sarab.
Thats all for now
From Rochelle Newman
--------------------
>From Tony Z
>===========
>I've seen references to characters getting extra abilities (i.e.,
>you name a 30 emissary and he comes out with 30 emissary and an
>extra 10 agent or something). How likely is this to happen, and
>does using the Name Character (versus Name
>Emissary/Mage/Agent/Commander) have anything to do with the chances
>of what pops up?
I'm sure GSI will flatly deny this occurs, and I have no idea if
this happens in the All-Sorts games at all; but it sure seems to me
that FIRST-TIME PLAYERS GET A LOT OF EXTRA ABILITIES. Heck, my
first game I played Cardolan, and I think I had more agents with
25-30 stealth than did the Sinda or Woodmen (and a lot more than I
got in later games as the Sinda or IK). In other games, it's always
seemed that new players got especially *lucky*. I suspect that GSI
tweaks the proportions somewhat, to give newbies a greater
probability of special abilities. Any one else see the same
pattern? Personally, I don't mind - newbies often need the
advantage! But I doubt GSI would admit to this happening,
regardless.
As for other advantages - you tend to receive more of what you're
trying to get, in general. That is, if you name a single class, you
don't tend to get a multi-class instead (or at least I've never seen
it - has anyone else?). If you name a single-class, you're likely
to get up to 10 points extra in whatever that class is; If you name
a dual-class character, then you're likely to get 10 points in a
third class. So, if you're trying for a multi-class, you get more
"multi", if you try for a single skill, you get more of that skill.
Thus, your example of naming an emmy and getting agent skills seems
to be pretty unlikely. Stealth is another matter entirely; I'm not
sure whether its *completely* random which characters get it, but it
doesn't appear to be limited to one type of character. So you can
get an emmy with stealth; just not an emmy with agent rank (again,
anyone see anything different?) I'm not completely sure whether
the real factor is "naming a dual-class" character, vs. "using the
name character rather than name comm/agen/emmy/mage" order, but I
*think* its the type of character rather than the type of order
thats the issue.
Tom's reply: I've created a number of characters who've come in with
10 points in some skill they wouldn't otherwise have. E.g., most
recently a 40-point commander ended up with 10 points of emissary
skill; a double-class agent/emmy had 10 points of mage skill; and a
straight emissary showed up with 10 points of agent skill. It can
and does happen, but it seems far more likely that a character will
end up with additional points in his primary skill rather than 10
points in another skill (and a good thing, since a 10 skill rank is
damned useless).
From Tony Zbaraschuk
--------------------
A summary of a Q & A session with Bill Feild
Can two subcommanders in the same army TroopsMan the same troop
type, or must they train different types?
YES, THEY CAN TRAIN THE SAME TROOP TYPE AND DOUBLE THE BENEFITS.
Do unowned artifacts always start in the same place from game to
game, or is their placement random? If random, is it "all over the
map" or "in the same area?"
ARTIFACTS START RANDOMLY, NOT IN THE SAME HEX, NOR SAME AREA.
If I have a 30 commander (no other skills) with an agent artifact,
can he raise his agent rank from 0 by performing (say) GrdLoc, thus
giving me a dual-class character on the cheap?
NO. EXCEPT FOR STEALTH (WHICH IS NOT A SKILL) NO RANK CAN BE RAISED
ABOVE ZERO BY VIRTUE OF ARTIACT BENEFITS.
Does the system keep track of how many people have what kind of
armor/weapons? For instance, if I have 300 steel/steel HC and 300
bronze/bronze HC, and enter combat, the printout would show 600
45/45 HC, right (average of steel and bronze)? If I then lose 300
HC in the opening battle, do I lose them evenly from each, or would
the less well-defended bronze/bronze HC take more casualties then
the Royal Arnorian Lancers in their steel armor?
THE LOSSES WOULD BE SPREAD EVENLY BECAUSE THE TROOPS ARE CONSIDERED
TO HAVE 45 ARMOR, NOT SOME WITH 30 AND SOME WITH 60. PAGE 27-28 IN
THE RULES COVERS THIS IN SOME DETAIL.
If an army attacks a population center, but doesn't have enough
strength to (destroy /capture) it, does it still weaken the pop
center any (reduce it in size, reduce fortifications, etc.?)
IT WOULD NOT AFFECT THE POP CENTER LEVEL. HOWEVER, IT WOULD PUT IT'
UNDER SIEGE' AND IF THE ARMY HAD WAR MACHINES, IT COULD REDUCE THE
FORTIFICATIONS.
If one of my victory conditions is to roast Elrond over a slow fire,
and I successfully feed him to the wolves, can the Noldor (or
another player) name a new character "Elrond" and thereby deprive me
of my victory points? (Actually, this is two questions: can a new
character be given the same name as a dead or retired character; if
so, does this new character "undo" the death of the old one as far
as victory points are concerned?)
YES, THEY COULD NAME A NEW "ELROND" (OR ELROND II, ETC). HOWEVER,
THE COMPUTER WILL KNOW THE DIFFERENCE AT GAME END (DUE TO THE UNIQUE
CHARACTER "SKETCH ID" ASSOCIATED WITH ALL ORIGINAL CHARACTERS) AND
YOU WOULD STILL GET CREDIT FOR THE 'KILL'.
If one of my victory conditions to hold (name of population center),
and it is destroyed during the game, can I build a new one with the
same name in its place and get the victory points for that? (After
all, I am colonizing the area I want...)
YES, AS LONG AS YOU CONTROL THE HEX WITH A POP CENTER, THE NAME
MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.
From Kim Andersen
-----------------
In one of my games as DS, two dragons (Smaug and Scorba) have turned
up in two of my towns. Well, the place where Scorba turned up, I
only had an army-commander, so he of course did not encounter the
dragon. But the question is if the army-commander can "force" (as
Brian suggests in his encounter file) the encounter with Scorba. Or
do I have to move a new character in to get the encounter. In
general I like to know if army-commanders can "force" any encounter
(i.e. answer the riddle for an artifact). I asked Criss at Allsorts
this question which you can see in the forwarded message, so I
guess I have to move another character in.
In the other center where Smaug turned up, we (the DS) have two
characters (one of them had just moved in) not in armies, but
neither of us got any encounter with Smaug ??? Well, the FP also
have two armies here, so it could be some FP character who got the
encounter. But the questions are then:
1) Can characters with armies get encounters ?
[Tom's note: depends on the encounter. If it's an army encounter,
yes; otherwise, no.]
2) Can characters with armies "force" an encounter ?
[Tom's note: nope.]
3) Do you ALWAYS encounter a dragon if there are characters in the
hex ?
[Tom's note: nope again.]
4) If we say that a FP character got the encounter with Smaug, he
will of course have to spend an order reacting to the encounter,
avoiding getting slain. Can our two DS characters then also react to
recruit Smaug now that a FP have already reacted to it ? (Brian say
so in his encounter file, but is this ALWAYS true).
[Tom's note: two things. First, you don't have to spend an order to
react; the default is always FLEE, and for the FP much of the time
this is the best option. Second, the DS won't be able to recruit
the dragon if the dragon is attempting to munch on an FP character;
the dragon will only react with *one* character during the turn.
I've tried to force' a number of encounters to save a character
from being injured and found that because the first character was
serving as the monster's dinner, others in the hex couldn't attract
its attention.]
Forced March Movement
=====================
By John Cain
I would like to respond to Ken Lee's recent assertion in _Mouth_ 44
about how forced marching, works. He stated that forced marching
starts on day 1, other army movement on day 2. In _Mouth_ 45, Ken
Lee backed up his assertion with an example he had discussed with
the MEPBM GMs here in Australia. My comments are intended to rebut
what Ken wrote.
Here in Australia, MEPBM is GMed by SFGA, mainly by Fred Martin.
Fred is a very helpful and friendly GM, and generally does a great
job. However, SFGA's knowledge of the detailed mechanics of how the
game works is not always exactly on the spot in my experience. This
is hardly surprising, as they are only going to know what GSI tells
them, or what they discover through their own experience (I believe
they play in a couple of GSI games via email).
I am afraid that in this case it seems to me that SFGA have
inadvertently mislead Ken as to the explanation for the example he
sets out to support his case. My primary reference is the article
"Army Movement in MEPBM" by Paul E. Lundstroem in _Mouth_ #29. I
recommend that anyone who is interested in the mechanics of army
movement should read this article. My own experience supports this
article's explanation of the movement mechanics in MEPBM.
Ken gives his example:
>> Place : My army was on a mountain road hex vs SG was also on a
>> mountain road hex.
>> Food : My army have no food vs SG's army have food.
>> Army : My army was a full cav army vs SG mix (with footmen)
>> troops army.
>> Movement : My army had normal movement vs SG force march.
>>
>> I was attempting to keep a SG army off my capital so I can try
>>to assassinate his army commander off my capital since capture pop
>>is before assassination.
>> My army movement costed 4 (full cav without food) and SG
>>movement was 6. Now, it would seem that I have won the movement
>>combat, but guess what happen that next turn? A SG army appear on
>>my capital and my army didn't move!?
Ken provides a complicated explanation for this event, as given to
him by SFGA. Apart from the fact that some of the logic in this
explanation appears to be flawed, the explantion is also incorrect.
Armies enter the hex they are moving to BEFORE they expend any
movement points, then expend the movement cost for entering that hex
IN that hex.
The explanation for the above event is really quite simple. When
two armies (lets call them A and B) start adjacent to each other,
and each attempts to move into the other's hex, a random selection
is made to see whether A or B gets to move first. If A gets to go
first, it enters B's hex, trapping B there. If B goes first, then
it will enter A's hex, trapping A there.
So there you have it. Of course, the above does not make it
impossible that forced marching does indeed start on day 1, and
normal army movement on day 2. However, I doubt this is true.
Since Ken's first assertion of this, an ally of mine has been in a
somewhat similar situation to that Ken describes. He force marched
into the enemy, but still found them on his capital rather than
himself in their hex. Of course, it is possible that they also
force marched, so this does not completely settle the question.
Challenge Ranks of 1650 Starting Characters
===========================================
By Tony Zbaraschuk
I put this together, and thought it might be a useful article for
the Mouth. It's a list of the characters in the 1650 MEPBM that
start with artifacts, including the recalculated challenge rank and
the powers of their artifacts. This shows (for instance) why
Cardolan should always refuse personal challenges when running into
the Witch-king's armies :)
1.03 The Eothraim
Mahrcared(C 50, Ch 50(70))
181 Herugrim Combat +1000
1.04 Arthedain
Argeleb(C 50, E 20, Ch 52(112))
5 Ring of Barahir Command +35
31 Palantir of Annuminas Scrying
33 Palantir of Amon Sul Scrying
38 Silver Rod of Andunie Command +25
1.06 Northern Gondor
Caranthir(C50, Ch 50)
30 Palantir of Orthanc Scrying
Tarondor(C 60, A 10, E 20, Ch 64(104))
29 Palantir of Minas Anor Scrying
49 Shield of Anarion Command +20
57 Helm of Isildur Command +20
Veantur(C 50, Ch 50(70))
6 Ring of Axardil Command +10
28 Palantir of Minas Ithil Scrying
95 Gilgador Combat +500
Vinyaran(C 60, E 10, Ch 61)
27 Palantir of Osgiliath Scrying
1.07 Southern Gondor
Baranor(M 30, Ch 30(40))
114 Angian Combat +500
Celdrahil(C60, E10, Ch 61(71))
85 Navron Combat +500
Marahil(C 10, A 10(35), E 20, Ch 14(30))
4 Ring of Impersonation Agent +25
1.08 The Dwarves
Bain I(C 50, E 10, Ch 51(126))
10 Dwarven Ring of Power Command +40
60 Durin's Armor & Shield Command +15
102 Durin's Axe Combat +750
120 Hammer of the Deeps Combat +1000
Fulla III(C 30, E 10, Ch 31(46))
17 Horn of Fear Combat +500
140 Hammer of Returning Combat +750
Thrar III(C30, A 10, Ch 31(46))
69 Erchmar Combat +750
1.09 Sinda Elves
Ringlin(M 50(80), St 20(50), Ch 50(80
35 Orb of Seeing Mage +30
64 Bracers of the Mist Stealth +30
Thranduil(C 60, E 30, St 20(30), Ch 63(78))
55 Helm of Shadow Stealth +10
121 Troll Slayer Combat +750
122 Orc Slayer Combat +750
1.10 Noldo Elves
Cirdan(C 40(60), A 20, E 40, M 50(60), St 25, Ch 69(77))
40 Gaergil Safe in Deep Seas
51 Ossana Mage +10
59 Gaerennon Command +20
Elladan(C 50, A 20, M 20, Ch 58(68))
93 Gorthdur Combat +500
106 Cubragol Combat +500
Elrohir(C 50, A 20, M 20, Ch 58(68))
91 Gordur Combat +500
107 Curaran Combat +500
Elrond(C 40, E 60, M 70(120), St 25, Ch 87(162))
11 Vilya Mage +50
41 Mantle of Doriath Hide Pop Center
90 Helkuin Combat +1250
Erestor(E 40, M 60(85), St 25, Ch 65(90))
26 Mallorn Staff Mage +25
Glorfindel(C 60, E 30, M 40(55), St 25, Ch 74(97))
8 Lorglin Mage +15
89 Macilromen Combat +1000
(Unknown Noldo)
32 Palantir of Elostirion Scrying
1.11 The Witch-King
Angulion(C 10, A 20, E 30(60), M 30, Ch 40(44))
157 Pectoral Emissary +30
Ashdurbuk Zalg(C 60(90), Ch 60(100))
67 Ulukai Command +30
68 Thrakurgash Combat +500
Dancu(C 60, A 20, Ch 63(73))
100 Elfbane Combat +500
Durkarian(C 50(70), A 10, E 10, Ch 53(73))
47 Belt of Durin Command +20
Murazor(C 40(50), E 40, M 70(100), St 30, Ch 85(130))
48 Thologaer Ciry Mage +30
52 Morgul Plate Command +10
75 Vasamacil Combat +750
82 Romoquenaro Combat +750
86 Nallagurth Combat +750
Rogrog(C 50, Ch 50(65))
115 Fire Mace Combat +750
116 Blood Spike Combat +750
1.12 Dragon Lord
Celedhring(C 20, A 30, M 50(80), Ch 60(130))
155 Taurin Combat +2000
156 Maranya Mage +30
Khamul(C 30, A 30, E 30, M 40(70), St 30, Ch 53(98))
62 Dragon Helm and Arm Mage +30
150 Stinging Tongue Combat +750
153 Water-skimmer Combat +750
Maben(E 20, M 50(80), Ch 52(82))
154 Ring of Bleeding Mage +30
Orduclax(M 50(70), Ch 50(70))
34 Orb of Dark Seeing Mage +20
Urgubal(C 30, E 10, Ch 31(41))
99 Elfhewer Combat +500
1.13 Dog Lord(C 20, E 20, M 60, St 30, Ch 67(82))
Dendra Dwar
74 War-dancer Combat +750
138 Air-cleaver Combat +500
Gurthlug(C 30(60), E 20, Ch 32(62))
160 Collar of Command Command +30
Krusnak(C 30, A 0(15) E 20, M 30(60), Ch 42(93))
2 Ring of Stargazing Mage +30
43 Cloak of the Heavens Agent +15
148 Sickle of the Heavens Combat +1000
Tonn Varthkur(C 40(55), E 30, Ch 47(87))
158 Thunder's Edge Combat +1250
159 Skull Helm Command +15
1.14 Cloud Lord
Ji Indur(C 20(45), A 40, M 40, St 30, Ch 62(78))
56 Helm of the Mumak-Kings Command +25
104 Dawnsword Combat +750
109 Cloud Bow Combat +750
1.15 Blind Sorcerer
Akhorahil(C 20, E 20, M 60(75), St 30, Ch 76(101))
73 Yellow Hammer Combat +500
123 Amulet of Communication Mage +15
Pochak(C 30(40), Ch 30(40))
66 Bracers of Chennaca Command +10
1.16 Ice King
Gaurhir(A 10, M 30(50), St 30, Ch 32(52))
25 Staff of Bronze Mage +20
Hoarmurath(C 30, A 20, M 50(70), St 30, Ch 58(88))
50 Ovir Crown Mage +20
80 Snow Hammer Combat +500
141 Hue-Changer Combat +500
Khathog(M 40(50), Ch 40(50))
20 Staff of the Serpent Mage +10
1.17 Quiet Avenger
Adunaphel(C 30, E 30, M 40, St 30, Ch 47(62))
97 Fire's Edge Combat +750
143 Night Piercer Combat +500
Malezar(C 10, E 10, M 40, St 30, Ch 43(53))
78 Sword of Soul Reduction Combat +500
1.18 Fire King
Ren the Unclean(C 30(40), E 20, M 50, St 30, Ch 58(72))
54 Helm of Sen Jey Command +10
111 Believer's Bane Combat +500
112 Burning Blade Combat +500
Skargnakh(C 30, A 10, E 10, Ch 34(44))
84 Ongrum Combat +500
1.19 Long Rider
Din Ohtar(A 30(60), M 10, E 10, St 30, Ch 25(49))
70 Ring of Binding Agent +30
Lomelinde(A 30(50), M 10(30), Ch 25(36))
71 Talisman of Absorption Mage +20
72 Cloak of Duvorn Agent +20
Uvatha(C 60, A 20(35), E 20, St 30, Ch 65(79))
53 Listening Helm Agent +15
79 Stormless Bow Combat +500
92 Horse-Tamer Combat +500
1.20 Dark Lieutenants
Bolvag(C 20, M 50, Ch 60(85))
117 Hatred Curse Combat +750
Gothmog(C 70(85), A 30, E 0(20), Ch 76(84))
37 Voice of the Dark Tower Emissary +20
46 Robe of the Orc-Priests Command +15
Miruimor(C 20, M 30, Ch 45(55))
87 Morlach Combat +500
Urzahil(C 20(35), E 40, M 70(100), St 0(40), Ch 80(116)
3 Ring of Iron Magic Mage +30
45 Cloak of the Abyss Stealth +40
58 Helm of the Dark Command +15
Unknown Dark Lt.
118 Skull Flail Combat +1000
119 Moon Axe Combat +750
1.23 The Dunlendings
Eribhen(M 50, Ch 50(65))
24 Ghostbane Combat +750
137 Bloodrunner Combat +750
1.24 Rhudaur
Arfanhil (C 40(50), Ch 40(50))
124 Herufea Command +10
Broggha(C 20(30), A 10, M 10, Ch 24(34))
63 Cu-Sagga-Brath Command +10
1.25 Easterlings
Ovatha II(C 40, A 10, Ch 41(56))
76 Usriev Combat +750
146 Horse-slayer Combat +500
The Fourth Age Game
===================
By Tony Zbaraschuk
Now, I haven't seen too much about the FA 1000 game, other than the
recent Whispers articles on nation location and nation-building (a
singularly uninspired article, IMO), and I'm not one of the
playtesters, so don't know much about the various point costs in
nation-building... but why should that stop me from speculating?
First off, Things Look Really Different.
You can't base your strategies on who's nearby, since you won't know
who's nearby, nor what the effects on the Balance of Power will be
if you march against one neighbor and not another. (E.g., in the
1650 game, North Gondor MUST march into the Ithil Pass, because
otherwise the Dark Servants will be all over the landscape as they
break out of Mordor. In the FA 1000 game, maybe nobody will even
care about the Ithil Pass.)
Hidden pop centers are a real advantage, just like they were meant
to be, since now their location isn't known to everyone with a
database file. Of course, people may still deduce that something's
up if armies keep appearing out of nowhere. I suspect that a common
strategy will be to start with a hidden camp somewhere far away from
their core region and then secretly upgrade it to a major town,
providing a very secure backup capitol.
Uncovering character identities will take more time, too, so
personal challenges, assassinations, kidnappings, doublings, and
other fun activities will take rather more time to develop. I
suspect that some of the mage spells (e.g., Divine Nation Forces)
will see considerably more use, and a lot of people will be issuing
Scout Character orders _all the time_.
Which leads me to suspect that character distribution will be very
different, too. Because launching initial attacks will be somewhat
harder (you don't know who the enemy characters are, or how tough
they are, and starting army and pop center locations off your map
are totally unknown; furthermore, you don't know who can see YOU),
there's less need for commanders (though the one nation in the
Whispers article that had only ONE commander was way far out, in my
opinion.) Given the power of agents in both the 1650 and 2950
games, many characters will probably opt for lots of powerful agents
in their starting lineup. In my opinion, this is a mistake; who are
you going to send the agents after.
No, the real power class at start will be emissaries. In the 1650
game, for instance, only three nations (the Noldor, the Witch King
and the Dark Lieutentants) start with emissaries of any power. Only
Elrond, Murazor, and Urzahil are over 30 in emissary rank. There
are a few 30s, but most emissaries are 10s and 20s in multi-class
characters. Note how most of the Nation Strategy and Tactics in the
early Mouth issues start by saying "Of course, I consider naming two
(three, four) emissaries standard for this nation."
Now you can start with them, and they don't have to be 30
emissaries. Imagine everyone starting with two or three 60
emissaries! There will be a LOT of new camps, and high-loyalty new
camps, too. There will be a massive population explosion in this
game.
My own character-building strategy would probably be to have at
least one character of high level (50-60) in each class, so that
anything you want to do early (build camps, scout, develop armies,
hunt for lore/artifacts) you can. The other four characters would
then start as multi-class at lower levels to allow for development.
Probably two agent-emissaries and two commander-agents, the best
multi-class combinations. Maybe one triple-class character for
long-term development.
Of course, it all depends on what the costs are for various starting
characters and character combinations.
And picking nation advantages sounds real nifty, too. Again, I
suspect that being able to create 40 agents/emissaries will be a
very common choice, along with stealth (if it's possible.) Probably
those, stealth, and the cheap construction abilities (build forts,
build ships, hire armies) will be all that people will spend points
on, with the others going to characters and pop centers. (Not
armies. Create two 100-man armies, and you can recruit all you want
to while the other nations are still figuring out where you are and
which side you're on.) As I understand matters, only the Two
Kingdoms will have market manipulation ability; otherwise EVERYONE
will go for out.
Those are my thoughts, anyway. You may have other opinions. May
the best statesman win!
The Cost of Nations in the 1650/2950 Scenarios
==============================================
By Brian Mason (with minor additions from Tom Walton)
That GSI has placed a relative cost on properties of player
positions in the new scenario (me-pbm FA 1000) allows for one to
calculate what would be the "cost" to create a position identical to
the ones in me-pbm 1650 and 2950. This will provide two things:
one, it will give you a way to further compare the strengths and
weaknesses of positions in the two Third Age scenarios; and two, it
will possibly be instructive for those of you in your first Fourth
Age scenario who're puzzled by the plethora of possibilities.
To a certain extent, this sort of exercise is artificial. It is
uncertain whether or not the "cost" of these characteristics would
be the same in the 1650/2950 scenarios (e.g., I consider the army
costs in FA 1000 artificially high, and it is also impossible to
have more than one army).
For those of you unfamiliar with the FA 1000 costs they are
summarized below:
Special Nation Ability
1: scout/recon at double 7000
2: scout/recon at +20 3000
3: all chars scout at 50 4000 DWARVES ONLY
4: challenge rank bonus 2000
5: stealth rank bonus 7000
6: no morale loss for force march 2000
7: low morale loss with no food 2000
8: +20% adjustment on buy/sell orders 6000
9: new emissaries at 40 6000
10: new mages at 40 4000
11: new agents at 40 6000
12: new commanders at 40 3000
13: troop training at 20 2000
14: troop training at 25 3000 ELVES ONLY
15: HI troop training at 30 2000 DWARVES ONLY
16: MA troop training at 25 1000
17: build ships at 1/2 timber 2000
18: build ships at 1/3 timber 2000 ELVES ONLY
19: build fort. at 1/2 timber 4000
20: new armies at morale 40 3000
21: hire armies for free 7000
22: all chars uncover secrets at 40 2000
23: can learn spell "weakness" 4000
24: can learn spell "conjure mounts" 4000
25: can learn spell "conjure food" 4000
26: can learn spell "conjure hordes" 4000 DS ONLY
27: can learn spell "fearful hearts" 3000 DS ONLY
28: can learn spell "fanaticism" 3000 DS ONLY
29: can learn spell "summon storms" 4000 DS ONLY
30: can learn spell "teleport" 6000
31: kidnappings/assasinations at +20 12000
32: no storms at sea or lost navies 3000
33: navy warship strength = 4 2000
34: navy warship strength = 5 3000
Artifacts (#2 is free) 4000
Navy (Transports and Warships) 250
Hidden Population Center 10000
Armies
Heavy cavalry (per 100 troops) 6000
Light cavalry (per 100 troops) 3000
Heavy infantry (per 100 troops) 4000
Light infantry (per 100 troops) 2000
Archers (per 100 troops) 2000
Men-at-arms (per 100 troops) 1000
Population Centers
Camp 3000
Village 7000
Town 12000
Major Town 19000
City 27000
Port 2000
Tower 1000
Fort 3000
Castle 8000
Keep(*) 13000
Citadel(*) 20000
(*) extrapolation, no FA cost provided
Characters
10 or 20 skill rank 300
25 skill rank(*) 350
30 skill rank 400
40 skill rank 600
50 skill rank 1000
60 skill rank 1500
60 skill rank emissary 1000 MEN ONLY
60 skill rank mage 1000 ELVES ONLY
60 skill rank agent 1000 DS ONLY
60 skill rank commander 1000 DWARVES ONLY
70 skill rank(*) 2200
90 skill rank(*) 3500
(*) extrapolation, no FA cost provided
The table below reflects the FA 1000 cost of each of the above major
categories. Column one lists the position, column two is the number
of the specific nation advantages (SNA) that nation has, column
three is the SNA cost, while columns four, five, and six are the
artifact, navy, and hidden pop center costs. Columns seven eight and
nine are the costs for armies, population centers, and characters
based on FA 1000 values. Note that some extrapolation is done for
keep, citadels, and skill ranks of 25 or 70. Note also, that while
this represents the cost, based on FA 1000 expenses, it might not be
possible to make these nations up, exactly. For example, the maximum
stealth (without some special ability) in FA 1000 is 10. 1650
nations are listed first, then 2950 nations.
SNA SNA$ Art Navy Hidden Armies Pop Chars
Wood. 1,4,5,7 18000 0 0 0 126000 80000 7200
North. 8,9,13,17 16000 0 4500 0 126000 114000 5000
Eoth. 6,12,13,24 11000 4000 0 0 306000 114000 5200
Arth. 7,10,13,19 12000 12000 6000 0 141000 131000 6500
Card. 12,16,20,21 14000 0 0 0 99000 147000 4900
NGon. 7,12,13,19 11000 28000 10500 0 246000 356000 10300
Sgon. 7,10,13,19 12000 8000 18750 0 240000 203000 8000
Dwar. 3,6,15,19 12000 24000 0 10000 234000 170000 5900
Sinda 5,7,14,18 14000 16000 9750 40000 78000 162000 13600
Noldo 5,6,14,22 14000 48000 7500 20000 57000 122000 19200
WK 7,12,26,27 12000 44000 0 0 165000 138000 13700
DrL 1,5,7,30 22000 28000 0 10000 129000 100000 10900
Dog 5,7,13,24 15000 21000 0 0 144000 71000 8600
Cloud 5,11,22,31 27000 8000 0 0 162000 82000 5600
Blind 10,26,29,32 15000 8000 5250 0 111000 63000 7300
Ice 5,7,11,29 19000 16000 0 0 108000 61000 6100
Quiet 1,9,12,22 19000 8000 6750 0 99000 86000 7800
Fire 7,20,21, 19000 12000 0 0 111000 58000 6200
26,28
LR 6,12,13,24 11000 20000 3000 10000 156000 66000 6900
DkLts 10,12,27 10000 24000 0 0 132000 77000 12300
Cors. 4,17,32 9000 0 20750 0 117000 181000 10800
Harad 4,16,21,22 12000 0 9750 0 117000 230000 5500
Duns 1,4,11 15000 4000 0 0 162000 97000 7000
Rhud. 4,12,16,21 13000 4000 0 0 204000 104000 5400
Elngs 4,7,12 7000 4000 0 0 189000 154000 5500
SNA SNA$ Art Navy Hidden Armies Pop Chars
Wood. 1,4,5,7 18000 0 0 0 8000 57000 9000
North. 8,9,13,17 16000 0 2000 0 14000 68000 5400
Rohan 6,12,13,24 11000 8000 0 0 30000 64000 6400
Rgers 7,10,13,19 12000 32000 0 0 10000 55000 10600
Silvan 5,7,14,18 14000 16000 2000 10000 14000 53000 9400
NGon 7,12,13,19 11000 20000 5000 10000 58000 128000 8600
Sgon 7,10,13,19 12000 8000 5000 0 44000 101000 7700
Dwar. 3,6,15,19 12000 12000 0 0 30000 60000 8600
Sinda 5,7,14,18 14000 16000 1000 40000 4000 61000 15100
Noldo 5,6,14,22 14000 36000 1000 10000 4000 69000 16600
Wking 7,12,26,27 12000 36000 0 0 16000 70000 10700
Dlord 1,5,7,30 22000 16000 0 10000 16000 72000 9100
Dog 5,7,13,24 15000 24000 0 0 16000 68000 7500
Cloud 5,11,22,31 27000 8000 0 0 6000 66000 5400
Blind 10,26,29,32 15000 16000 0 0 6000 56000 10000
Ice 5,7,11,29 19000 16000 0 10000 6000 51000 7100
Quiet 1,9,12,22 19000 8000 2000 0 21000 58000 7300
Fire 7,20,21, 19000 12000 0 0 8000 48000 6200
26,28
LR 6,12,13,24 11000 28000 0 10000 45000 63000 7100
DkLts 10,12,27 10000 36000 0 0 6000 57000 12600
Cors. 4,17,32 9000 4000 7500 0 10000 102000 5600
REstr 4,16,21,22 12000 4000 3000 0 18000 58000 4900
Duns 1,4,11 15000 4000 0 0 17000 62000 6900
WW 4,12,16,21 13000 8000 0 0 12000 64000 9600
KEstr 4,7,12 7000 4000 0 0 30000 70000 5400
According to FA 1000 at start costs, the following setups would be
allowed based on SNA and other special item costs:
1650 Woodmen 2950 Woodmen
1650 Eothraim 2950 Northmen
1650 Cardolan 2950 Riders of Rohan
1650 Dunlendings 2950 Rhun Easterlings
1650 Rhudaur 2950 Dunlendings
1650 Easterlings 2950 White Wizard
2950 Khand Easterlings
The limitation here is generally due to three factors. First of all,
no nation can afford multiple hidden population centers or more than
six artifacts. The larger number of allowed 2950 nations is
reflective of a smaller navy (in the case of the Northmen) and the
Easterlings being split.
As far as armies go, all 1650 nations are disallowed. The 2950
armies are smaller, but still generally larger than the FA 1000
start. The following would be allowed:
2950 Woodmen 2950 Dunadan Rangers
2950 Sinda Elves 2950 Noldo Elves
2950 Cloud Lord 2950 Blind Sorcerer
2950 Ice King 2950 Fire King
2950 Dark Lieutenants 2950 Corsairs
2950 White Wizard
Again, when considering population center costs, no 1650 nation
would be allowed in the FA 1000 scenario. In the 2950 scenario about
the following would be allowed:
2950 Woodmen 2950 Dunadan Rangers
2950 Silvan Elves 2950 Blind Sorcerer
2950 Ice King 2950 Fire King
2950 Dark Lieutenants
Finally, when considering characters, many nations have acceptable
character groupings. They are:
1650 Northmen 2950 Northmen
1650 Eothraim 2950 Blind Sorcerer
1650 Cardolan 2950 Corsairs
1650 Dwarves 2950 Rhun Easterlings
1650 Cloud Lord 2950 Khand Easterlings
1650 Haradwaith
1650 Rhudaur
1650 Easterlings
Ramifications for the 1650/2950 Scenarios
-----------------------------------------
This comparison gives some interesting insight into the 1650/2950
scenarios, a perspective similar to but based on different data from
the nation comparison tables published earlier in The Mouth. For
example, take a close look at the nations allowed in the FA scenario
listed above; by definition, these nations are weaker in the aspects
discussed than those nations *not* allowed. That is, in terms of
characters the Northmen and Eothraim of the 1650 game are definitely
weaker than the Witch-King or Dragon Lord, as neither of the latter
two could be duplicated in the FA scenario.
On the surface this is obvious, but one wonders about the role that
special nation abilities plays when one realizes that the Cloud
Lord, of all positions, is also on the list. Of course, in terms of
SNA's the Cloud Lord *can't* be duplicated by a Fourth Age position,
so the comparison must then be taken to the what if?' stage of
speculation; is the Cloud Lord position so very powerful, and so
likely to end up placing, precisely because of that nation's SNA's?
Is that why GSI made it impossible to construct a Cloud Lord-like
position in the Fourth Age scenario? It seems likely.
For a more realistic comparison of the cost of armies to other
items, like characters and SNA's, I found it useful to divide the
listed cost on the table by 10. Army prices are ridiculously high
in the FA scenario and don't translate well at all to the other
scenarios; dividing by 10 seemed a good way to bring the costs into
line and to make up for the fact that most starting armies will be
ground into dust in a few turns time, or assassinated out of
existence. Starting armies rarely accomplish much in the 1650/2950
scenarios; it's the armies recruited afterwards that go on to press
the advantage, something which is also true in the Fourth Age game.
In any event, seeing how nations match up to one another is
interesting, and may be useful in either choosing a position or
constructing a new one. It also provides a guide on how you can
duplicate your favorite 1650/2950 position in the FA scenario.
FA 1000: buy now or pay later ?
-------------------------------
There are many items you can "purchase" at start in the FA 1000
scenario which are available at different costs than the usual cost
which is associated with the order. For example, if we compare costs
vs. the FA startup cost we see the following:
Costs:
Order FA 1000 startup
ships 1000 + 1500*n 250
camps 2000 or 4000 3000
village 7000 7000
town 13000 12000
major town 21000 19000
city 31000 27000
tower 1000 + 1000*n 1000
fort 3000 + 3000*n 3000
castle 5000 + 5000*n 8000
harbor 2500 + 5000*n 0
port 4000 + 7500*b 2000
30 level char 5000 400
multi-char 10000 600 +
n = cost of timber
Clearly, certain things are a better buy than others. All items
associated with navies (ships, transports, harbors, and ports) are
significantly below cost. A marine power could get started for a
fraction of the typical cost. For example, the 2950 Corsairs nation
has 30 ships, 5 harbors and a port. This can be had in FA 1000 for
9500 gold. The cost to build this sort of force is 46,500 gold plus
77,500 timber (with no ship building SNA).
Multi-classed characters are a better buy. At 10k per character
these characters, whether they be multi-classed commander/agents for
all your army subcommands, or others, are expensive at 10,000 gold.
If you can anticipate them, they are at a significant cost saving,
however, this may cut into your stable of very good characters.
Most pop center upgrades are at a modest cost savings, at best.
One of the quirks of the FA game is that it's painfully easy to
build a naval power early on, given the appropriate positioning.
There are very few naval powers in the 1650/2950 scenarios, and
these nations tend to avoid conflict whenever possible because
rebuilding losses is so very difficult and expensive.
That means that if you wish to be a pirate you can position your
nation along the coast - any coast - and spend a good chunk of your
starting funds on a nice, big navy. In fact, you could see a
half-dozen players do this in a game, pushing naval warfare and strategy
to the forefront like you never could before in the other scenarios.
Rather than being a simple adjunct to what's happening on land, the
events at sea could decide the balance of power across all of
Middle-Earth.
Those among you who're hankering to swashbuckle from Lindon to
Umbar, take note: you've a real chance of getting your wish in the
new game.
Specific Nation Advantage Comparison Table (1650 & 2950)
--------------------------------------------------------
Economies, armies, and character strengths have been adequately
covered in past issues (see Allegiance Comparison Tables in "From
the Mouth of Sauron" issue 3 (1650) by Tom Walton and issue 35
(2950) by Brian Mason). What is covered here is the same sort of
allegiance comparison, but here addressing only specific nation
advantages.
Dark vs Free 1650 Eriador Mirkwood Mordor
0.30 0.50 2.70
w/Rhudaur 0.63
w/Dunland 0.68
w/both 1.00
w/Corsairs 2.88
w/Harad 2.94
w/Easterlings 2.84
Dark vs Free 2950 0.46 0.48 2.17
w/Dunland 1.04
w/White Wizard 0.96
w/both 1.54
w/Corsairs 2.32
w/Rhun 2.37
w/Khand 2.29
The big Dark Servant advantage in Mordor, while very misleading,
does bring to mind another factor not tabulated in the Allegiance
Comparison Tables. That is, the number of orders an allegiance can
bring to bear. While in 1650 the DS cannot match the armies are
economic might of the Gondors they have him whipped in the number of
orders they can execute. Furthermore, their artifacts and quality of
starting characters only serves to accentuate this difference.
The mean SNA cost for both Third Age scenarios is 14360 +/- 4316.
Nations falling from one to two sigma above are the Dragon Lord, Ice
King, Quiet Avenger, and Fire King. The Cloud Lord is a remarkable
3 sigma outside the range. This is a reflection of his exceedingly
important starting SNAs. Only the Corsairs and Easterlings (Khand
Easterlings) fall below the -1 sigma belt.
One should realize that GSI's pricing of the SNA's seems a bit odd
one some things, perhaps too high on some traditionally thought to
be relatively useless. Even so, the results above a roughly in line
with the previous nation comparison tables and indicate that perhaps
one of the primary factors in victory is how well a nation's
particular advantages are used (the Cloud Lord being a prime
example). If this is so, then in the Fourth Age game choosing your
SNA's could be the single most important step of nation creation
that you do.
Last Word
=========
From Brian Mason
Before I get into the main subject of this "Last Word," let me take
a moment to suggest you point your web browser at
http://www.speakeasy.org/~ohh/tolksarc.htm which has some nice
Tolkien humor. The plot synopses are a gas, and I'm eager to try out
the Lord of the Rings board game just so I can play the "Arwen meets
Eowyn" plot complication card.
Diplomacy and the break in neutrals is the topic for this issue.
I've played in several games of me-pbm, and in most cases the games
were blessed with a 3:2 neutral split. Generally, I've found that
newer players tend to opt for Free People Positions, so the
initially powerful army and financial advantage the Free have does
often not amount to much. Games that I've played in have been pretty
good.
However, a 4:1 or 5:0 split in neutrals will usually result in
instant disaster for the other side.
In 1650-201 I was playing the Noldo and trying my best to talk with
neutrals, but all my negotiating acumen didn't matter in the end as
the Long Rider player stole the Ring of Wind from the Dunlendings
("because I have Din Ohtar and I want it, that's why") and the
neutrals flocked to the Free People side just to punish the Long
Rider. (Possibly the Servs in this game should have policed their
own players and forced the LR to return the Ring, but I digress.)
The game, which lasted a little over a year, was from that point on
never in doubt. We had some inexperienced and uncooperative Free
People players, but we were never in danger of losing (or even
getting hurt) from that point on.
In another case, 2950-22, we had what may have been one of the first
all email games. For what ever reason, good negotiating by the
Freeps, bad negotiating by the Servs, or just dumb luck, most of the
Neutrals (I can't remember if it was four or five) decided to go
Freep. That, along with a healthy dose of "know-it-all-itis" and
mutual animosity among the Servs led them to drop early. This game
ended around turn ten.
Now, I'm facing a similar situation. In 1650-251 many of the Freeps
(myself among them) have aggressively pursued the neutrals. As a
result a disproportionate number of them may decide to join the Free
Peoples. For some bizarre reason the Long Rider position is not
being played (I don't know if the fault lies with GSI or some
bone-headed player), and I've received a sort of -- we better get a
more equitable split on neutrals or we should quit -- message from
one of the Dark Servants.
I'm in this game playing against one of the best friends I've made
in me-pbm, and I dearly want to play against him for quite a while.
He brings out the best play in me, and keeps challenging me to
learn. The bottom line is that I want this game to go on.
Now, while discretion is necessary here, I will elaborate a bit
more. Negotiations have been proceeding at a clip, and at least one
neutral in this game is deep into planning, even though they have
not officially decided on an alliance. Should they, in a sense,
backstab their allies for the sake of balance? Should they give 2+
turns fair warning to a side that they are switching?
So, in this situation, what is a player to do? I'm aware of the
futility of playing on in the face of terrible odds, yet, should a
neutral be forced to join an alliance he doesn't want to (for
whatever reason) for the sake of play balance? When should a player
drop his "full court press" to get others allied with him? Does this
sort of must-have-a-3:2-split mentality punish those who are good at
negotiation and reward those who are not. I found in playtest game
#1 the utter futility of playing a game as an isolationist, and will
continue to see all games in the same manner I've always: a implicit
willingness to sacrifice my own position for the good of the team.
I don't think I have any sort of conclusion here, but it has allowed
me to vent a bit on a problem. Is the problem prevalent? Probably
not. Is it intractable? Also, probably not, but much depends on the
individual involved.
Brian Mason